I don't know why all the fuss about the OEM only release.. we can all now aquire the update and have the instructions on the recommended install procedure. Sure its not an official release and as such won't be supported, but neither is enabling the DVD Library and ripping DVDs to hard disk, or enabling the movie library outside of the US, or altering DLLs to enable remote desktop, basically most of the things that enthusiasts do aren't officially supported so why do we care if this is?

As for people throwing their toys out of the pram over DirectTV support... well the phrase buyer beware comes to mind.... you where never told that it would support DirectTV you presumed that it might... so now you just have to decide what you do next. Yes it does suck that it doesn't but at least DirectTV is mentioned, in the UK we where hoping that Sky TV would be supported purely based on little more that DirectTv and Sky have the Murdoch connection and the logos where beside each other when the announcement of the Microsoft partnership was made way back in 2006.

What worries me most is that there might not be another update until Windows 7 that is just too far away and there is far too much that is still outstanding from the VMC release in Nov2006. I don't buy into the need to 'keep the goodies for Windows 7' as currently in this world of digital TV there is an endless supply of goodies.... much better would be for the eHome team to work on rolling out incremental feature upgrades every 6 months, rather than trying to build a super media center that will be released in one go with Windows 7. Wasn't that the lesson that was supposed to be learned after the overly long Vista development! Remember small steps, great strides...

Ben Reed:

On July 16^th, 2008, Microsoft released an update to the version of Windows Media Center included with Windows Vista Home Premium and Windows Vista Ultimate to our OEM partners - this update is referred to as the “Windows^® Media Center TV Pack”. In order to ensure that users get the best experience possible, this update will only be available from OEMs, as they are best positioned to provide the testing and hardware configurations for a great customer experience.

How far is Microsoft from making Media Center an independent product ? The introduction of the TV Pack once again proves that, just like Office, Servers, Business Solutions and Developer Tools this product serves a specific market and requires specific skills, partners and sales-channels that are familiar with the home entertainment business.

Traditional partners like HP and Dell do not know the home entertainment business well enough but of course like to explore it together with Microsoft. So far no-one seems to be really succesful. Its time to explore other directions.

This baby should be made ready to walk on its own feet.

I love media center, but it is getting harder and harder for me to defend it to critics. There is just no REASON that it should be NEW oem-only. All digital cable ready/cablecard PCs should be able to get this update. Some OEMs (S1Digital) have promised to ship out new install disks for customers that have "lost" their old disks, and the new install disks will just happen to have TV Pack included, but what about the rest of us? Why didn't Microsoft leave less of this to chance and OEMs who don't know anything about media center, let alone OCUR, etc., and take steps to ensure as few customers would get left out as possible?

I know for a fact, after spending wasted hours on the phone, online chats, and emails, that Dell's XPS support people know nothing about Media Center, and even less than nothing about cablecard PCs. Beyond this, they know nothing about the TV Pack. There's a problem here. Microsoft should have done a better job here, imo. They're leaving this too much to chance. It isn't like they advertise VMC and cablecard PC as it is, and they certainly won't advertise TV Pack, so new customers probably won't even know that they're getting it! If you're on on TGB, you're just waaaaay out of the loop on a lot of this stuff. Microsoft needs to do a better job of helping those customers that are already helping themselves. Why make people resort to "unauthorized" upgrades? Oh yea, that's right...so you won't have to support them. Still, you should have taken care of existing OEM customers. It's not like my brand new XPS 420 cablecard system won't meet the rigorous technical demands of the TV Pack....

Ogre:

• At my store, if I become an OEM, could I offer a service that installs this pack for people who bring in their RTM machines?

I'm wondering this too. I already use OEM copies of Vista for my builds at work, and I have at least 5 builds on deck that want QAM support inside Media Center. My existing Media Center systems out in the field probably won't need the TV pack, but my new customers are willing to wait if I can guarantee I can get them built in QAM support.

If there is some kind of application process, I'd love to find out how to go through it.

ChiWax:

Seems like there are some considerable losses here if you think about it.  You will have to purchase a CableCard PC to get HD from Comcast now.  I only wanted to be able to record clear-QAM from Comcast and as of today I am out of luck.  People who were hoping to use the HD-PVR from Hauppauge are out of luck.  I hate to point it out but Windows Vista just isn't HD friendly as of today.  I mean the XBOX 360 is more HD friendly because you can purchase some sweet HD on there.  That's how I have gone without Comcast HD for this long.  I went with a hefty-priced non-CableCard PC earlier in the year and probably wont touch it until Windows 7.  The fact that I can't do a few clear-QAM channels using the TV Pack is bad enough.  I can only imagine how DirecTV customers feel....Q

I forgot to mention that you can't play HD-DVDs or even worse Blu-Rays straight thru Media Center...and there is not Blu-Ray capable extender now that I think about it even more!!!

 

I wasn't refering to staying with media center so all that hardware wouldn't be required to get hd from comcast.  But to be fair I don't get most of my hd content from tv anway (at least not directly)

People should not forget that MC is also very flexible and allows programmers to modify or add-in new future. By having MS position themselves (putting themselves in a corner) does not seem like a good idea. The new TV Pack breaks many of these applications. Take a look at Andy's blog regarding DVRMSTooblox.

http://babgvant.com/blogs/andyvt/archive/2008/07/29/the-why.aspx

As MS heads into this new space, I see many developers jumping ship and going to other products. Why are some developers given preferential treatment over others? Why are some people given better access?

Overall, unless new direction is taken within MS ehome team and provide better direction, I do not believe that users such as you and I will continue to support this product.

GSoD:

People should not forget that MC is also very flexible and allows programmers to modify or add-in new future. By having MS position themselves (putting themselves in a corner) does not seem like a good idea. The new TV Pack breaks many of these applications. Take a look at Andy's blog regarding DVRMSTooblox.

http://babgvant.com/blogs/andyvt/archive/2008/07/29/the-why.aspx

As MS heads into this new space, I see many developers jumping ship and going to other products. Why are some developers given preferential treatment over others? Why are some people given better access?

Overall, unless new direction is taken within MS ehome team and provide better direction, I do not believe that users such as you and I will continue to support this product.

 

I still think VMC is one of the best if not the best music/video player available (from a 10ft perspective anyway).  Ok, the video sucks but there are a number of projects working hard to fix that.  I personally think the music stuff is fine (along with the new music plugin released yesterday).  It's the tv stuff that seems to be sorely lagging behind other offerings.  I personally moved from BeyondTV specifically because the MS product provided such a seamless solution to all my media.  But the truth is that with a good remote I don't really need everything to be running in the same userspace.  I can use VMC for videos/music and BeyondTV for real PVR abilities.

Chris - Moderator:

SpoonsJTD:

I know this doesn't help, but the official announcement was only about what was and what wasn't in the July 16th OEM release, it didn't say that DirecTV wasn't coming later this year like the DSR's are telling us. Join me in my denial! :)

I can tell you with no Microsoft backing that it is not.  There will not be another Media Center release or software update to Media Center that will enable the tuner to work until the next Media Center feature release/Windows release.

Well, that's painful. Unlike most of the comments so far, there's no wiggle room there for some kind of DTV tuner-specific update.

Isn't this whole move a reversal of what MS did with Vista in trying to reduce the number of SKUs?  The combined MCE and Tablet into the main OS so that there weren't so many variations of Windows.  But now they are making minor offshoots - there is now a variation for MC, will we soon see a Tablet Pack that will only be available to OEMs as well?

I am not saying that this is necessarily the correct move.  I think combining MC into the OS has proven to be a horrible decision since it means that updates are occurring so slowly.  This TV Pack is, at least IMHO, a minor change and it comes 18 months after Vista was released.  Wouldn't it be better if MC was a standalone product and new features could be added on a more regular basis - like very 6-9 months rather than once every 18 months?

Leaked or not leaked, this is a very disappointing announcement that should insult every member of this community. I think that each of the users here should do a lot of thinking, before purchasing an OEM HTPC or any MSFT product in the future. This is the worst support I could ever imagine receiving from a manufacturer/service provider. While watching all iPhone owners enjoing almost monthly firmware updates and fixes to their product while I am, an avid MSFT user never got a single update to my Windows Mobile 6 device (I guess I can always buy a new one), I now understand that this is just how the big software company operates. Suppliers and OEMs are its biggest customers -not us the end users, and taking care of OEMs means screw the end users.

The problem is that until we, the users take a stand, we will get screwed over and over again. I can promise you that - I will use the MSFT products I already purchased. I will not purchase any more MSFT products (not directly or from an OEM). So long Windows 7, helo Mac. So long HTC Touch Diamond, helo iPhone. If enough consumers will do the same, maybe eventualy MSFT learns who are its real customers - the end users.

So I read through three pages of post and then I went back and read the original post again.  What I saw was a Microsoft statement about what happened back on July 16th when everyone thought that Fiji had been released or was about to be released.

I for one will wait to pass my judgment on September 8th (the day after CEDIA Expo ends).  Based on what some of the Microsoft folks that have been willing to spend their time here have been able to say, we will get an OFFICIAL announcement during the CEDIA Expo.  So on September 8th we will have ALL of the facts, not just part of them.   On that date I will decide what my Media Center future will be based on the complete picutre.

You have all the facts, there is nothing hiding from you.

AndresE:

So on September 8th we will have ALL of the facts, not just part of them.   On that date I will decide what my Media Center future will be based on the complete picutre.

You are dilusional.

This is all there is, what is it going to take to convince you, a personal call from Ben Reed?

al74:

Leaked or not leaked, this is a very disappointing announcement that should insult every member of this community. I think that each of the users here should do a lot of thinking, before purchasing an OEM HTPC or any MSFT product in the future. This is the worst support I could ever imagined receiving from a manufacturer/service provider. While watching all iPhone owners enjoing almost monthly firmware updates and fixes to their product while I am, an avid MSFT user never got a single update to my Windows Mobile 6 device (I guess I can always buy a new one), I now understand that this is just how the big software company operates. Suppliers and OEMs are its biggest customers and not us and taking care of OEMs means screw the end user.

The problem is that until we, the avid users take a stand, we will get screwed over and over again. I can promise you that. I will use the MSFT products I already purchased. I will not purchase any more MSFT products. Not directly or from an OEM. So long Windows 7, helo Mac. So long HTC Touch Diamond, helo iPhone. If enough consumers will do the same, maybe eventualy MSFT learn who are its real customers - the end user.

Oh please.  Losing us HTPC users would be as devastating to Microsoft as a gnat's fart in a bag would be toward ozone loss.

Just a crazy thought to the MS dev team(s).  What would really help at least some of us out would be a much richer, deeper SDK.  It we were more able to dig into the guts for customization purposes then the community could be in a position to develop some addons (as opposed to plugins).  This would allow us to develop some of the "features" we want without having to watch the eHome team develop stuff for one group or another that might not be features we personally desire.  I'm sure if I was in europe right now I'd be thrilled with this update, being in the US I don't really see much added that catches my attention (I'm not suggesting you were trying to catch my attention).  If we could do some of this stuff for ourselves then I'm sure we could shorted our request list to you by quite a bit over the next 18 months.