superswiss:

I know you can set it up the same it is now, but for that I don't need the TV Pack. I've already set it up like that on my current system. The preference thing is what doesn't work in the scenarios I'm thinking about. By setting the preference, all you do is tell MC which tuners to use first. Here's the scenario I'm talking about that can't be accomplished with preferences. Let's say you have three recordings scheduled and you set the ClearQAM as preferred and let's say you have 2 ClearQAM and two CableCards. Let's say I really want the 3rd recording DRM free. I can't do that unless I have seperate channels for ClearQAM and CableCard, otherwise the first two recordings will take the ClearQAM tuners and the 3rd will go to the first CableCard tuner. Yes, combining the channels makes it easier for the wife, but you won't be able to tell if something you record will be DRM free or not. It will all depend on which tuners happen to be available based on your current recording schedule.

You kind of contradict yourself here. First you say you know you can do it the same, then you say you can't.

Either way, you can still do it the EXACT same was as you do know, but like you said, if don't want to do it any other way, then you don't need the TV Pack.

But with the TV Pack you can definitly do what you want in your scenario, in fact there are a few ways to acomplish it. You could split the clear qam and DCT channels out so they are just like they are now -- but you CAN set the tuner preference for each individual channel. Also, with ATSC channels, you can have both channels in the guide from multiple sources for the same channel at the same time. So you can have 10.1 and 10 with differnt priorities on each, so when you setup the recording, you can choose which tuner to use by recording on just channel 10.1 for example.

Like I said, though. You aren't losing anything with the TV Pack, but to your point, that doesn't mean you actually will gain anything if you aren't going to use the new features anyways.

Unless of course the new CableCARD DRM restriction only applies to the TV Pack. While I'm not sure of that, I can tell you that as it stands now, the DRM is the same as it was before.

bjdraw:

Unless of course the new CableCARD DRM restriction only applies to the TV Pack. While I'm not sure of that, I can tell you that as it stands now, the DRM is the same as it was before.

Ben,

Is there any word from ATI when they will be releasing a firmware update? Maybe Sept 3rd?

John

bjdraw:

...you CAN set the tuner preference for each individual channel.

What he said.  Just edit your channel, go to Edit Sources, and set your tuner priorities.  This is a new feature in TV Pack.

I went through each channel and gave my HDHomerun priority -- exactly what the person you replied to claimed wasn't possible.

On my NTSC channels, I gave my ATI 650 the lowest prioirity, because it has a nasty tendency to make whining noises on white screens.  Pre-TV Pack, it was a crapshoot as to which tuner Media Center would pull up for a given channel.  Now, I can tell it which tuner I want used.

millerbrad:

bjdraw:

...you CAN set the tuner preference for each individual channel.

What he said.  Just edit your channel, go to Edit Sources, and set your tuner priorities.  This is a new feature in TV Pack.

I went through each channel and gave my HDHomerun priority -- exactly what the person you replied to claimed wasn't possible.

On my NTSC channels, I gave my ATI 650 the lowest prioirity, because it has a nasty tendency to make whining noises on white screens.  Pre-TV Pack, it was a crapshoot as to which tuner Media Center would pull up for a given channel.  Now, I can tell it which tuner I want used.

I think you are referring to me. I didn't say setting priorities wasn't possible. I'm saying setting priorities and pinning to a specific tuner are two different things. If the tuner selection is based on priority, the actual tuner that's gonna be used depends on which tuners are availalble at that moment. With my current setup, I know for sure that the HDHomeRun is going to be used when I want it to be used, not when it happens to be available. With the priority approach, the first available tuner with the highest priority will be chosen for the next recording. With this approach recordings that I don't care if they are DRMed will use the HDHomeRun first if available and if I set a higher priority on the HDHomeRun than the DCTs, instead of using the DCTs and leave the HDHomeRun available for recordings that must be DRM free. TV Pack can be setup the same way as my current setup, but my point is I don't need TV Pack if I'm not using the channel combining feature, which I most likely wouldn't because I'm losing a level of control.

superswiss:

I think you are referring to me. I didn't say setting priorities wasn't possible. I'm saying setting priorities and pinning to a specific tuner are two different things. If the tuner selection is based on priority, the actual tuner that's gonna be used depends on which tuners are availalble at that moment. With my current setup, I know for sure that the HDHomeRun is going to be used when I want it to be used, not when it happens to be available. With the priority approach, the first available tuner with the highest priority will be chosen for the next recording. With this approach recordings that I don't care if they are DRMed will use the HDHomeRun first if available and if I set a higher priority on the HDHomeRun than the DCTs, instead of using the DCTs and leave the HDHomeRun available for recordings that must be DRM free. TV Pack can be setup the same way as my current setup, but my point is I don't need TV Pack if I'm not using the channel combining feature, which I most likely wouldn't because I'm losing a level of control.

I see what you're saying now...

However, with TV Pack, you can edit a channel and split a tuner from the merged channels to give the HDHomerun-tuned channels their own channel numbers.  This would probably give you what you're looking for.

Honestly, if you're not too crazy about the merged channels (and ATSC subchannel data), there's really not much benefit for people in the U.S. with an HDHomerun.  With .wtv and the loss of plugin functionality, I can see where you'd prefer to not install TV Pack.

I did what the instructions asked:

- Fresh install of Vista with SP1
- Installed Windows Media Center TV Pack
- Installed PlayReady
- Installed included updates.
- Install all recommended updates

The TV won't work, I have a Hauppauge Nova-T Stick DVB-T, as Device Manager says. During the TV setup, I notice that it misses out the step on "Select TV Service Provider". It finds a stick, doesn't name it by product or model, just says "Digital Tuner Device DVB-T (1 tuner)", selecting that searches and finds all the usual 88 channels. Then when I go to watch a program, it says that the channel has got no signal and says it could be: down to me or the channels fault. This happens on every channel.

I've tried this twice now, why won't it work? What am I doing wrong?

curbnoise:

Or, I am the evil enabler as dannyh predicted here:

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/permalink/281532/281688/ShowThread.aspx#281688

I still think you are "the evil enabler" (no hard feelings).

Just look at the timing : it is interesting how everything was so hush hush previously and how they kept saying "wait till CEDIA" and "wait till September" before they could say anything at all, and now that you found them a really convincing argument explaining why supplying the update to users may be difficult, they suddenly issue the formal announcement just 2 days later, their announcement being practically a copy-paste of what you said.

AndresE:

bjdraw:

AndresE:

So on September 8th we will have ALL of the facts, not just part of them.   On that date I will decide what my Media Center future will be based on the complete picutre.

You are dilusional.

This is all there is, what is it going to take to convince you, a personal call from Ben Reed?

Ok I am dilusional. 

Chris - Are you able to speak on behalf of Microsoft in saying that we have all the facts?  I'm really not holding my breath, but Jeff and few others were making a big deal about CEDIA as if we were going to get more info than what was leaked.  From the post I read there was NOTHING new in that.

What we need at this point is someone from Microsoft to come on here and speak to our concerns.  This was like someone leaving a bag of sh** on fire on our doorstep, ringing the doorbell and running off.

You have all the facts.  Also, the answer is yes... you can trust Chris to speak for us.  If he is talking publically and says that he has talked to us, you should trust what he says. 

Apologies for my silence yesterday, but I haven't been able to get caught up on this thread until now.  Everyone asked for information, and I told you that we would make an announcement no later than CEDIA.  This is that announcement.  I can understand the frustration, because this confirmation confirmed the speculation about the release being OEM only.  To be 100% transparent, the announcement took longer than it was supposed to.  We WANTED to tell you all the details, and put an end to the speculation and secrecy.  Most of all, we wanted to get the painful truth out there so that we can all move forward and build from this.  Does it suck that the TV Pack is OEM only?  To some yes, and to some no.  The fact is that this is a great release that adds some much needed TV support to Media Center, but it is also true that releasing it only to OEMs was the right thing to do.  All I can say is that WE HEAR YOU.  You want more updates.  You want them faster.  You want DirecTV integration.  You want H.264.  Guess what... WE WANT THEM TO, and I assure you that all of us are working towards those goals.  Sometimes features slip, and historically, our releases are no closer than one year apart.  I obviously can't give you all the details of when specific features are coming, but we can continue to build on the relationship between the eHome team and the TGB community.  Things have been getting better and better since we acquired this site, and we'll continue to listen to your feedback and strive to meet your needs.

I still have a couple responses to specific posts in this thread that I want to respond to, but I need to go spend some time with my family. 

JeffTucker – MSFT:

AndresE:

bjdraw:

AndresE:

So on September 8th we will have ALL of the facts, not just part of them.   On that date I will decide what my Media Center future will be based on the complete picutre.

You are dilusional.

This is all there is, what is it going to take to convince you, a personal call from Ben Reed?

Ok I am dilusional. 

Chris - Are you able to speak on behalf of Microsoft in saying that we have all the facts?  I'm really not holding my breath, but Jeff and few others were making a big deal about CEDIA as if we were going to get more info than what was leaked.  From the post I read there was NOTHING new in that.

What we need at this point is someone from Microsoft to come on here and speak to our concerns.  This was like someone leaving a bag of sh** on fire on our doorstep, ringing the doorbell and running off.

You have all the facts.  Also, the answer is yes... you can trust Chris to speak for us.  If he is talking publically and says that he has talked to us, you should trust what he says. 

Apologies for my silence yesterday, but I haven't been able to get caught up on this thread until now.  Everyone asked for information, and I told you that we would make an announcement no later than CEDIA.  This is that announcement.  I can understand the frustration, because this confirmation confirmed the speculation about the release being OEM only.  To be 100% transparent, the announcement took longer than it was supposed to.  We WANTED to tell you all the details, and put an end to the speculation and secrecy.  Most of all, we wanted to get the painful truth out there so that we can all move forward and build from this.  Does it suck that the TV Pack is OEM only?  To some yes, and to some no.  The fact is that this is a great release that adds some much needed TV support to Media Center, but it is also true that releasing it only to OEMs was the right thing to do.  All I can say is that WE HEAR YOU.  You want more updates.  You want them faster.  You want DirecTV integration.  You want H.264.  Guess what... WE WANT THEM TO, and I assure you that all of us are working towards those goals.  Sometimes features slip, and historically, our releases are no closer than one year apart.  I obviously can't give you all the details of when specific features are coming, but we can continue to build on the relationship between the eHome team and the TGB community.  Things have been getting better and better since we acquired this site, and we'll continue to listen to your feedback and strive to meet your needs.

I still have a couple responses to specific posts in this thread that I want to respond to, but I need to go spend some time with my family. 

Jeff, you seem like a nice guy with good intentions. Looking at your post it sound pretty much the same as Jess' promises from a year ago. We are working on this... it is a priority... we hear you... Guess what? You did work on stuff, but did not fullfill your promises as this TV Pack is not a supported solution. People here have spent thousands of hard earned money because Jess promised that you are working on a solution. People here may continue to spend that money because they want to believe you this time when you hint of new feature and solutions. Don't hint or promise if you are not 100% sure you can deliver because until now, MSFT promised and didn't deliver (and again, a leaked unsupported solution is not a solution. It may work for the sophisticate user with testing machines and the confidence to revert back if things go wrong but it won't help the less techy (and there are less techies here)).

Very very very disappointing.

JeffTucker – MSFT:

AndresE:

bjdraw:

AndresE:

So on September 8th we will have ALL of the facts, not just part of them.   On that date I will decide what my Media Center future will be based on the complete picutre.

You are dilusional.

This is all there is, what is it going to take to convince you, a personal call from Ben Reed?

Ok I am dilusional. 

Chris - Are you able to speak on behalf of Microsoft in saying that we have all the facts?  I'm really not holding my breath, but Jeff and few others were making a big deal about CEDIA as if we were going to get more info than what was leaked.  From the post I read there was NOTHING new in that.

What we need at this point is someone from Microsoft to come on here and speak to our concerns.  This was like someone leaving a bag of sh** on fire on our doorstep, ringing the doorbell and running off.

You have all the facts.  Also, the answer is yes... you can trust Chris to speak for us.  If he is talking publically and says that he has talked to us, you should trust what he says. 

Apologies for my silence yesterday, but I haven't been able to get caught up on this thread until now.  Everyone asked for information, and I told you that we would make an announcement no later than CEDIA.  This is that announcement.  I can understand the frustration, because this confirmation confirmed the speculation about the release being OEM only.  To be 100% transparent, the announcement took longer than it was supposed to.  We WANTED to tell you all the details, and put an end to the speculation and secrecy.  Most of all, we wanted to get the painful truth out there so that we can all move forward and build from this.  Does it suck that the TV Pack is OEM only?  To some yes, and to some no.  The fact is that this is a great release that adds some much needed TV support to Media Center, but it is also true that releasing it only to OEMs was the right thing to do.  All I can say is that WE HEAR YOU.  You want more updates.  You want them faster.  You want DirecTV integration.  You want H.264.  Guess what... WE WANT THEM TO, and I assure you that all of us are working towards those goals.  Sometimes features slip, and historically, our releases are no closer than one year apart.  I obviously can't give you all the details of when specific features are coming, but we can continue to build on the relationship between the eHome team and the TGB community.  Things have been getting better and better since we acquired this site, and we'll continue to listen to your feedback and strive to meet your needs.

I still have a couple responses to specific posts in this thread that I want to respond to, but I need to go spend some time with my family. 

Jeff, you are trying your best in difficult circumstances and I understand that.  However, perhaps you can explain why the decision was made to make TV Pack OEM only.  I for one have installed it and it makes a real difference to me and the all important WAF.  So your statement about it being a great release I believe is true... it has added some serious improvements.  It is a real shame that the majority of people will not be able to access it unless they get hold of the leaked version.

You say that "historically, our releases are no closer than one year apart".  I for one hope that this changes but I'm not holding my breath.  Maybe you can shine some light on this for us?  If you were to say that you hope to bring all the features you listed to the public sooner than Win7 and as soon as it is stable then that would certainly help a lot.

 

translucent:

 I'm sure if I was in europe right now I'd be thrilled with this update

 

Trust me, Europeans aren't thrilled at all with this update. Support for free to Air DVB-S is nice, but there aren't that many stations any more that are available free-to-air. Even Austria's main stations (ORF1+2) are encrypted.

It would be like not being able to watch either ABC+NBC and CBS...

Also HDTV in Europe comes in H.264 using DVB-S2 - which means that we still have NO HD at all in Windows Media Center!!!

Very dissappointing...

Jeff -

Trust me, I know you want to make things better and I see better communication... but the same things you are saying were said 18 months ago.

I am just as sad as others that things didn't make it into the RTM, but I hope we do see these things, and at some point we see eHome break out of the Windows Development cycle.

I think we all understand that this is a disappointment. It's clear that even Jeff get's that. The issue here doesn't seem to be a lack of communication. At least not a Jeff's level. This issue comes down to management and politics.

We can assume that if there are talented developers working compeltely free (on donations) with less powerful tools (re: SDK is no good) than a company with the resources of Microsoft will have to talent to make these things work and at a reasonable speed.

The issue here is that the people calling the shots have alterior motives. We still have no inisght into how the Direct TV/H.264 fiasco went down and who made the call to kill it. This probably has nothing to do with Jeff and nothing to do with Jess before that. I have a feeling we have no way of actually effecting these outcomes in this community forum.

This is no more than a marketing prop to allow us to vent at Microsoft employees that have no power to make changes. The only way we are going to ever see changes is to speak with out wallets. Large companies do not listen in the way someone like Sage or community developers will. Their "talent" is controlled by people who often have no concern for what the end user is looking for.

My guess is this is a political fiasco with Direct TV and the eHome management squarely to blame. Just look at how they purposefully broke the commercial skipping features. You know no one who actually cares for this product would ever willfully make that decision. Honestly, if this keeps up there is no hope for this community and we might as well shut the doors right now.

But Jeff, thanks for taking the hit for your bosses. We do appreciate having a punching bag.

The one thing I haven't seen answered is when new PCs with this update will hit stores, and if OEMs will be able to release this as an update.

For instance, I bought a cheap compaq the other day to act as a HTPC, will this release be available to me from the OEM? Should I return it and wait for new PCs to hit the stores with this?

lozenp:

The one thing I haven't seen answered is when new PCs with this update will hit stores, and if OEMs will be able to release this as an update.

For instance, I bought a cheap compaq the other day to act as a HTPC, will this release be available to me from the OEM? Should I return it and wait for new PCs to hit the stores with this?

When I talked to Ben Reed on the phone, I specifically ask him this very question, and he said the TV Pack is intended for New PCs.