lozenp:

As we’ve already stated, we’re working closely with our OEM partners on their Windows Media Center TV Pack products and we will share news and announcements with you in due course.

 

oon2ooo:

I can assure you that the whole of the Windows Media Center team, management included, would like to bring all the features you want to the platform.  There is no ulterior motive going on here.  This is not a conspiracy.

 

To the persons claiming Microsoft guaranteed certain features would be in the Windows Media Center TV Pack:

Please show me where and when anyone from the Windows Media Center team claimed specific features would definitely be part of a particular release?  You know that’s not how software development works.

Ben Reed:

Please show me where and when anyone from the Windows Media Center team claimed specific features would definitely be part of a particular release?  You know that’s not how software development works.

i do think there has been a lot of very bad decisionmaking, if I may say so.

No, you have not "claimed specific features would definitely be part of a particular release" but for over 2 years Microsoft has created certain expectations. One of them being that Europeans would finally be able to watch digital satellite television. (DVB-S)

Thousands of people, many of them Microsoft enthusiasts like me have stuck with Media Center and used workarounds for years (set-top-boxes, UDR, DVB-S to DVB-T workarounds) - Now you are telling all of them: You have to go buy a new Media Center?

Do you know that some of us own Media Center PC's worth thousands of Dollars?

The anger and frustration in the German/Austrian/Swiss community is unbelievable. Some say that they will now finally leave the ship for reelbox/sagetv/mediaportal - or just a dumb harddisk recorder from Taiwain, all of which support things media center should have supported years ago.

EDIT:
Give the TV Pack to the Tuner-card-Makers and let them give it to their customers- what would be the problem with that?

And ship it as an Ultimate Extra. Windows Vista Ultimate Users are Micrsosoft Enthusiasts who have paid more than enough for their license of Windows Vista!

To say there is not any ulterior motives or political maneuvering in the background would suggest that the eHome team is either very inadequate at their jobs, lacking funding or horrendously managed. In any of these cases there should be some accountability for your actions.

From experience in a similar software development environment, this type of result would end up with someone's feet to the fire. I can only hope your organization has the same levels of integrity and dedication to their customer base.

Ben Reed:

lozenp:

As we’ve already stated, we’re working closely with our OEM partners on their Windows Media Center TV Pack products and we will share news and announcements with you in due course.

Ben,

Those of us (like me whose machine was built 7/1/08 with dual Cable Card Tuners) who look forward to having just the same access to recordings that one gets with a Tivo 3 HD recorder. I really don't care if this is OEM only or a MS Update. What I want to know is should I send my machine back. In fact should everyone who bought a machine in the last month return them to your partners so that we can get the OEM only TV Pack or will Dell and others be able to send out an update and not make Fedex any richer?

I just want to add my voice to the crowd, and repeat the message;  OEM - only and lack of H264 is very disappointing.  Much as I love the Media Centre experience, I'm starting to look at Myth TV et. al.   MS are understandably very US-centric, but if they wish to keep fans in Europe and Australia etc. they will need to divert more resources to support the rapid changes in these territories, particularly for HD broadcasts.  Supporting OEMs only may be cost-effective in the long term, but it won't win many friends. 

Let's hope H264 and wider support comes soon.  Every family and group of friends has a geek/techie - if they say 'MCE is great - buy it!' then people follow...  

Thanks,
-Mat

Same situation here.

The Satelite companies that brodcast on the Nordic market uses encrypted DVB-S and encrypted DVB-S2. Therefore the only MCE version that is usable at all is "Fiji". Being OEM only it means that if rules are followed I shouldn't be able to get hold of it for my new homebuilt ($2K range) 100% silent HTPC. I should then have to buy a new standard model wich won't fit my needs just to get my hands on "Fiji".

Ofcource, thats not an option. The alternatives then are to use another SW like MediaPortal or MYTH/Ubuntu or to get "Fiji" another way. Maybee through a reseller who doesn't follow OEM rules. This isn't a good soloution because of  support and future uppgrades. It also sends the worong signals.

I fully realises that it probobly wasn't a happy or easy decission to take within Microsoft but I must agree with habnix. You are leaving Europe behind (again) and it's so sad to see such a good product wich has a huge adantage on the market being held back.

 

And now to something completly different: is there DVB-T support for Norway in "Fiji?"

 

JohnW248:

Ben Reed:

lozenp:

As we’ve already stated, we’re working closely with our OEM partners on their Windows Media Center TV Pack products and we will share news and announcements with you in due course.

Ben,

Those of us (like me whose machine was built 7/1/08 with dual Cable Card Tuners) who look forward to having just the same access to recordings that one gets with a Tivo 3 HD recorder. I really don't care if this is OEM only or a MS Update. What I want to know is should I send my machine back. In fact should everyone who bought a machine in the last month return them to your partners so that we can get the OEM only TV Pack or will Dell and others be able to send out an update and not make Fedex any richer?

You are naive if you think anybody cares about you. Either assume you won't get the update and enjoy your machine the way it is or send it back. Why did you spend so much money on an HTPC and didn't wait for Fiji first is another question.

al74:

You are naive if you think anybody cares about you. Either assume you won't get the update and enjoy your machine the way it is or send it back. Why did you spend so much money on an HTPC and didn't wait for Fiji first is another question.

I was going to answer this and point out some things to consider .... but I don't think it's worth the effort. We'll see what Dell & HP do for their customers.

 

Ben Reed:

 

To the persons claiming Microsoft guaranteed certain features would be in the Windows Media Center TV Pack:

Please show me where and when anyone from the Windows Media Center team claimed specific features would definitely be part of a particular release?  You know that’s not how software development works.

Please read this thread:

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/273071.aspx

Specifically, please read Jess' message number 205362. I think a reasonable person would have the right to assume that this is a promise. Now we know that it's a broken promise. No, I don't think it's enough to go to court with, but it's enough for me to understand that I got screwed by MSFT.

There are more implied promises like this by the way you just need to search. Jeff actualy made some in this thread. Let's wait and see what's going to happen with these promises. I'm willing to predict that no material update will be out before Windows 7 (and that Windows 7 won't be out before 2010), and even if there will be one, it won't be available to existing users.

What I find surprising is that the eHome team is supposed to be a team talented developers paid to  work on a particular product (Media Center) and improve the product. You would think that since they are working full-time on improving the eHome experience, and with the backing of a company as large as Microsoft, that the product would be leading the market and paving the way in terms of features.

Yet this is not at all the case, and surprisingly eHome is far behind all their competitors, even though these competitors are working compeltely free (or else on donations) during their free time (as a hobby, since developing the software is not their job), and have less powerful tools and resources at their disposal.

I understand MS is very US-centric, but if they wish to keep users outside of the US (especially in Europe), they will quickly need to implement long-awaited support for features required to watch broadcasts in these countries. I'm not even talking about features enhancements, but just basic requirements to be able to watch broadcasts in these countries. If MS does not act quickly, I feel they may loose all the goodwill from existing customers.

And on the other hand, MS is now spending millions in marketing (Mojaave experiment, etc.) to try to improve customer perception of Vista. However, thy obviously did not realize that choosing to lock out existing users of Vista of important features is hardly going to help change people's aversion to Vista.

I'd like to thank Microsoft (Ben & Jeff) for the official announcement. It's been a while coming, but better late than never!

Personally I'm very excited by this release. I've been waiting with baited breath for over a year now since Jessica started to give some indications (not promises - my expectations were quite correctly managed) of what would be coming. Part of that waiting was holding onto MCE2005 and not leaping into Vista, which offered nothing for me, just in case there was a gotcha in Fiji availability.

We now know that gotcha is the OEM only nature of the release. I'm not going to buy a new PC to run TV Pack. Sorry Microsoft, playing by the rules you've lost a Vista sale there.

However, with the release being leaked I probably will upgrade so Microsoft gets it's Vista sale anyway. Can someone from Microsoft say if this leaked copy will be killed by a future update?

I would like to make one suggestion to Microsoft: as, through the leak, you've effectively lost control of TV Pack distribution how about making it available officially. Hide it away somewhere obscure on microsoft.com to prevent casual users getting it, but allow a way for those who'll find it anyway to get a copy and for them, and Microsoft, to be sure it's clean and free of malware. It would give you back some of the control you've lost.

 

habnix:

No, you have not "claimed specific features would definitely be part of a particular release" but for over 2 years Microsoft has created certain expectations. One of them being that Europeans would finally be able to watch digital satellite television. (DVB-S)

I don't hang around on continential European forums so can't see what's been said there, but the only thing I heard from Microsoft about DVB-S support was in a podcast from Ian Dixon early last year with someone from Microsoft Ireland. In that he specifically said that subscription services weren't being supported.

I know it won't make you any happier, but FreeSat in the UK is FTA DVB-S and seems to work fine from all the comments I've read. BBC HD excluded for obvious reasons.

 

For your information, BBC HD and ITV HD are free-for-all, without any subscription, and do not work because of simple lack of support of H264, so you obviously do not know what you are talking about.

Ben Reed:

Please show me where and when anyone from the Windows Media Center team claimed specific features would definitely be part of a particular release?  You know that’s not how software development works.

Promised or not. Some features are so obvious and crucial that promising them shouldn't be necessary... You have given your competitors an even bigger head start, and you won't be able to close the gap. If you want to keep VMC a US product only, then say so. Don't give the rest of the world false hope. Because no matter what you say has been "promised" or not, you (MS) have clearly stated that you intend to support European standards, which you obviously have forgotten about (in case you're wondering, yeah, HD does exist here as well...).

I agree. I just dropped 600 on a new pc. I'd just like a little friendly advice from the MS team: should I take it back (only have 6 days left to do so) and wait a couple weeks or stick it out for an update from HP? Their support had no idea about it as of today.

I love the VMC product. The tvtonic olympics stuff is great. The extender support is great. I want to Use this as my only solution. My OTA HD is spotty at best so QAM is HUGE for me so this update is very big for a user like me.

al74:

Why did you spend so much money on an HTPC and didn't wait for Fiji first is another question.

It shouldn't be incumbent on a consumer to have to prowl internet message boards and forums to find out everything they need to know about what MS or any manufacturer might be doing in the future before making a purchase. I never heard of Fiji until I started hanging out in here and that didn;t happen until AFTER I bought my HPTC last month and was disappointed that VMC was almost as crippled as the MCE 2005 I thought I was upgrading from. I also knew nothing about MC plug-ins and hacks that give more functionality. If VMC is a product geared towards DIY enthusiasts and hackers then the retailers are completely misrepresenting the product as is MSFT. I just watched some of the videos in the VMC help section and the overwhelming message they convey is the ease of use and benefits of making your home a VMC home. It's an outright crock of *** the way MC is being marketed to unsuspecting consumers.