I found that too after I updated to 9.4, I only have Denoise on at 70 under CCC, so I wasnt sure who the culprit was.....after thinking what I had installed on the PC, I realised I had Blur and Sharpen activated in FFDSHOW, disabled those and the ghosting disappeared.

djp952:

The levels.wmv does have full black (0) and full white (255) at the ends of the PC scales, so technically it does have BTB/WTW.  In an ideal environment if you turned up the brightness on your TV, you would start to see gradients below 16 in the video.  That's probably not going to happen here, and I personally wouldn't worry too much about it.

With no NominalRange, no UseBT601CSC, CCC "Color" Brightness/Contrast set to 0/100, CCC "Avivo Video/Basic Color" Brightness/Contrast set to 0/100, and CCC "Avivo Video/All Settings/Enable Dynamic Contrast" turned off, what are you seeing for the following tests:

WITH CCC HDMI PIXEL FORMAT: RGB FULL
"levels.bmp" when opened with Windows Photo Gallery or Paint
"levels.wmv" when opened in Media Player
"levels.wmv" when opened in Media Center
(If this is possible) "levels.wmv" when opened in Blu-Ray software
(If this is possible) AVS HD 709's Black Clipping Pattern when opened in Blu-Ray software **

WITH CCC HDMI PIXEL FORMAT: RGB LIMITED
"levels.bmp" when opened with Windows Photo Gallery or Paint
"levels.wmv" when opened in Media Player
"levels.wmv" when opened in Media Center
(If this is possible) "levels.wmv" when opened in Blu-Ray software
(If this is possible) AVS HD 709's Black Clipping Pattern when opened in Blu-Ray software **

Perhaps if we know what black levels you're getting across the board with all defaults, somebody here will be able to make a recommendation as to exactly what to try.  I personally think your Denon should likely not be set for the 'expanded' mode and that might be part of this problem, but that's what the Pixel Format RGB Full is supposed to be for ... I think.

** AVS HD 709: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

For example, this is what I would have for my desktop PC (DVI/RGB Full 0-255) by default:

- levels.bmp on desktop = Correct, see 0-255
- levels.wmv in Media Player = Correct, only see 16-235
- levels.wmv in Media Center = Incorrect, see 0-255
- levels.wmv in TMT3 = Correct, see only 16-235
- AVSHD Black Clipping in TMT3 = Correct, see only 16+

I've posted a screen shot of all four "levels" tests here.  You'll see that only Media Center is incorrect.

In my case, the solution for this particular (admittedly just my desktop PC) setup is to apply a NominalRange of 1 for ehPresenter, then everything is accurate accross the board.  Depending on your setup/equipment, the solution may be different, and honestly might be impossible.

edit: If I'm wrong anywhere here, PLEASE correct me folks.

OK, Media PC rebuilt (went for x64 version this time), although why I bothered I don't know. I still have standby issues - it seems to go into and out of standby just fine if I put it into standby, but if the PC puts itself into standby after 30 minutes, it doesn't seem to want to come back. I'm utterly sick of it tbh. I also had issue with Media Center crashing because of the newer builds of FFDShow I had to troubleshoot before eventually discovering the x64 builds of FFDShow only work in Media Center in earlier versions. But hey, at least the thumbnails have starting showing right in Media Center now for my .mkv files. No more black thumbnails. It's been so worth it....

Anyway, back to the grey levels. Exactly the same problem with 9.4 drivers as before. I get the same results as yourself from those screenshots when I leave the Range at FULL. If I set it to limited, then in Media Center, the 16/235 get compressed to 32/219. Setting the Denon to RGB expanded or not makes no difference at all either. I'll check out the AVS HD 709 stuff and post back all the results in one go. Bit tired and late now.

I don't have any DVD software installed. I had a blu-ray drive in there but took it out and got a standalone player when I couldn't get HD Audio out of it. I got a completely trouble-free Panasonic DMP-BD35.

I can't get Nominal Range to work at all. I see absolutely no difference whatever value it's set to. Can you please post a .reg file for me with the export of yours in so I can do an import just to be certain I'm doing that side of things right?

bwlonsdale:

I can't get Nominal Range to work at all. I see absolutely no difference whatever value it's set to. Can you please post a .reg file for me with the export of yours in so I can do an import just to be certain I'm doing that side of things right?

Certainly:

regedit:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Debug]

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Debug\ehPresenter.dll]
"NominalRange"=dword:00000001

I decided to try out the new Windows 7 RC1 release - exactly the same issues. RGB Full in Media Center = Blacks at 16. RGB Full in Windows Media Player = Blacks at 0.

I think it's the 4670, ATI seem to have missed it off the list for doing correct black/white levels. I've made a comment to ATI's catalyst crew feedback page.

Although standby problem has now gone....!

Hi All,

This thread is way over my head but I thought I would post a stupid question.

I am running 7 RC1 with an Nvidia 9800GT via HDMI. 185.85 drivers. Single analogue tuner and two digital tuners.
Not sure what went wrong but I can't seem to find the happy medium of settings where HD and SD both look good.
Plenty of ghosting with SD and HD Blacks are too black. It feels like I am watching the Dark Knight with a Welders mask on.
With my previous Card (8600GT), I had the option to set the colour space to YPbPr and that seem to make everthing look good. I have since lost that option with the new card. Can someone please post what my optimal driver settings should be? Sorry for the stupid question but I am lost. I have tried reading through this thread but options seems to change depending on Manufacturer, driver version, connection type. Thanks.

bwlonsdale:

I decided to try out the new Windows 7 RC1 release - exactly the same issues. RGB Full in Media Center = Blacks at 16. RGB Full in Windows Media Player = Blacks at 0.

I think it's the 4670, ATI seem to have missed it off the list for doing correct black/white levels. I've made a comment to ATI's catalyst crew feedback page.

Although standby problem has now gone....!

Easy fix for you on the blacks.  1,) Add nominalrange=1 (dword) to registry.  2.) In ATI CCC under avivo video then "all settings" for color UNCHECK "Use Application settings".  3.) Set HDMI mode to RGB Limited or 4:4:4.  4.) Enjoy consistent black levels accross ALL applications.....

Hi All, Just wondering if it would be possible for the experts that frequent this thread to maybe create a new thread, or a sticky in this one that could potentially layout the optimal drivers settings for both Nvidia and ATI cards. My hope is that it would outline what the drivers/tweaks/reg hacks should be for NVidia and ATI with the newest drivers. It wouldn't have to be a huge post but just a quick list of settings/tweaks for each Manufacturer. I would also suggest that only the settings are provided for one driver revision each. Ideally it would be updated every so often as new drivers expose new settings. Thanks.

beaups:

bwlonsdale:

I decided to try out the new Windows 7 RC1 release - exactly the same issues. RGB Full in Media Center = Blacks at 16. RGB Full in Windows Media Player = Blacks at 0.

I think it's the 4670, ATI seem to have missed it off the list for doing correct black/white levels. I've made a comment to ATI's catalyst crew feedback page.

Although standby problem has now gone....!

Easy fix for you on the blacks.  1,) Add nominalrange=1 (dword) to registry.  2.) In ATI CCC under avivo video then "all settings" for color UNCHECK "Use Application settings".  3.) Set HDMI mode to RGB Limited or 4:4:4.  4.) Enjoy consistent black levels accross ALL applications.....

Thanks! That works great - needed a reboot to get a consistent white level (blacks were fine, but whites were stuck at 235 otherwise) but working nonetheless. I seem to have settled on Limited RGB, with ATI CCC set to Theater rather than standard (increases the black level a bit). I am using my Blade Runner rip as reference as you don't get a film with many more dark scenes than that :)

I have a relatively old Pioneer 435XDE, it can lose detail in the black level when it's too low, so I've FINALLY got a working system again.

OK, so the 9.5s came out the last couple days, do I dare install them....??? I discovered one last issue (not for this thread) where the display driver (or Windows) decided the primary display was now secondary, changed the resolution to 1920 x 1080i and refused to let me uninstall the display driver. I swear I wasn't dicking about with any settings. I ended up doing a system restore under Safe Mode to get it back working. There's a potential fix listed in the 9.5s for Windows 7...decisions, decisions...

I'm just glad I've got my Foxsat PVR to fall back on now to stop the other half complaining when it all goes pear shaped.

bwlonsdale:

beaups:

bwlonsdale:

I decided to try out the new Windows 7 RC1 release - exactly the same issues. RGB Full in Media Center = Blacks at 16. RGB Full in Windows Media Player = Blacks at 0.

I think it's the 4670, ATI seem to have missed it off the list for doing correct black/white levels. I've made a comment to ATI's catalyst crew feedback page.

Although standby problem has now gone....!

Easy fix for you on the blacks.  1,) Add nominalrange=1 (dword) to registry.  2.) In ATI CCC under avivo video then "all settings" for color UNCHECK "Use Application settings".  3.) Set HDMI mode to RGB Limited or 4:4:4.  4.) Enjoy consistent black levels accross ALL applications.....

Thanks! That works great - needed a reboot to get a consistent white level (blacks were fine, but whites were stuck at 235 otherwise) but working nonetheless. I seem to have settled on Limited RGB, with ATI CCC set to Theater rather than standard (increases the black level a bit). I am using my Blade Runner rip as reference as you don't get a film with many more dark scenes than that :)

I have a relatively old Pioneer 435XDE, it can lose detail in the black level when it's too low, so I've FINALLY got a working system again.

OK, so the 9.5s came out the last couple days, do I dare install them....??? I discovered one last issue (not for this thread) where the display driver (or Windows) decided the primary display was now secondary, changed the resolution to 1920 x 1080i and refused to let me uninstall the display driver. I swear I wasn't dicking about with any settings. I ended up doing a system restore under Safe Mode to get it back working. There's a potential fix listed in the 9.5s for Windows 7...decisions, decisions...

I'm just glad I've got my Foxsat PVR to fall back on now to stop the other half complaining when it all goes pear shaped.

Sadly, 9.5 breaks (severely) deinterlacing and other enhancements confirmed in both Vista x64 and W7 x64.  I believe but am not certain x86 versions are affected too.

You could always try them and then roll them back.  Issue seen with 9.5 is uncheckable video enhancements and only Bob and Weave deinterlacing modes available.  Good luck.

Anyone tried Cat 9.6 yet I am at the moment on 9.4's. Just dont want to go and %^&$ it all up :)

I've put the 9.6s on. I've noticed a few things, but in all honesty they may have been there prior to 9.6:-

When I uninstalled the 9.4s I was left with a blank screen so I had to RDP to the box in order to see what was going on and reboot. Connected to TV via HDMI. Subsequent testing showed no issue with installing 9.6s on top of 9.4s.

The deinterlacing tick box becomes unticked of its own accord in CCC.

I live in PAL land and when setting refresh rate to 59.97Hz or 60Hz for when watching MKVs with h.264 content (Win7 decoding) there is an annoying flicker. Note I'm setting the Media Center refresh rate via a reg key.

It happens every 30 seconds or so. If I set it to 50Hz (for when I'm watching LiveTV) then the flicker disappears. Setting 59.97/60 is best for the MKVs as they're 23.976FPS stuff so shouldn't introduce as much stuttering. Doesn't happen in LiveTV. I've left it to 50Hz as the slight stuttering is preferable.

The other thing I've found (and this isn't specifically 9.6s as I've had it happen prior) is if you RDP to the Win 7 machine, it creates the RDP session as a Secondary Monitor and makes it primary - sounds good in theory except when you've disconnected it stays there as a secondary monitor primary so you lose the desktop/start bar etc cos it's on the other screen....and if you try and change the resolution of course the applet appears on the Secondary monitor so you can't see it. I guess this is maybe a Beta thing or it may be down to the display driver but I'd hate to see this reflected in the RTM. If anyone knows how to get rid of the secondary monitor after an RDP session I'd be grateful to know.

I tried the 9.6s tonight on our old TV with an HD4550.  I've tested before, but only on a DVI CRT, this was my first try with an "RGB Limited" HDMI connection.

They seem to work OK.  UseBT601CSC is seemingly ignored again, but that didn't mess anything up.  Setting NominalRange to 1 for Media Center is of course unfortunately still required.  I got what looked like consistent black levels across the gamut of applications.  Picture quality on that TV was as I remember it, HDTV/Blu-Ray looked fine.

This TV, a Philips 30" HD CRT, clips both black and white a bit, so there was a smidge of crush here and there, but that's normal and what I remember.  I didn't note any particular black level/color issues like I was seeing in the earlier 9.x catalysts with NominalRange set to 1 on RGB Limited over HDMI.  This doesn't mean they work right, they just 'look' normal to me.

The 9.6s perform a little worse (about 5%) in a PerformanceTest benchmark over the 8.12s I had on this desktop PC (HTPCs are 8.11), but not so much as to be a problem for 1080p.

I did note the same enhancement setting problems as others have, but I always have those off anyway, so no biggie for me.  Deinteracling was also seemingly normal looking, unlike 9.5 which was way hosed.

I'll probably jump to 9.6 on my HTPCs (and Service Pack 2/IE8, they were part of my test) in the next couple days and see how that goes.  I need 9.5+ for the forthcoming SimHD from ArcSoft to work and of course Windows 7, so I can't stay on 8.11 for the rest of my life. 

Installation note: for those that have trouble upgrading Catalyst, here's what I do, it works 100% of the time for me.  Any other method always always always causes a BSOD for me, which by my rules means a Complete PC Restore:

• Using Device Manager, uninstall video driver and "delete driver files"
• Using Programs and Features, do a complete Catalyst uninstall
• REBOOT
• Install new version of Catalyst; works perfectly for me

Will post back with any issues I encounter when I jump.

hamiltonguy:

Hi All, Just wondering if it would be possible for the experts that frequent this thread to maybe create a new thread, or a sticky in this one that could potentially layout the optimal drivers settings for both Nvidia and ATI cards. My hope is that it would outline what the drivers/tweaks/reg hacks should be for NVidia and ATI with the newest drivers. It wouldn't have to be a huge post but just a quick list of settings/tweaks for each Manufacturer. I would also suggest that only the settings are provided for one driver revision each. Ideally it would be updated every so often as new drivers expose new settings. Thanks.

I would love for this too.  There seems to be a lot of different things going on in this thread, and all I know is that my colors look horrible.

Sapphire 4550 connected via HDMI to a Onkyo tx-sr606 connected via HDMI to a 46inch samsung LCD.  Running windows 7 with cat 9.6s.

If someone could make a guide that would be great.

mackworth:

I would love for this too.  There seems to be a lot of different things going on in this thread, and all I know is that my colors look horrible.

Sapphire 4550 connected via HDMI to a Onkyo tx-sr606 connected via HDMI to a 46inch samsung LCD.  Running windows 7 with cat 9.6s.

If someone could make a guide that would be great.

This might be OT for this thread, but what kind of color problems are you having with the 4550?  Are you experiencing extremely dark and/or light colors, or are the colors themselves way off in your opinion?

The reason I ask is that one common thing I've seen with people's HTPCs is that many TVs do not carry their settings from input-input.  So, maybe the settings you have on one input (like the internal tuner or another HDMI source) are not the same as they are on the input you're using the PC on.

My personal experience with the 4550 (Note: catalyst 8.11) is that the color is perfect.  The exact calibration settings I use for another HDMI input and the internal tuner on my TV are also perfect for the PC.  That doesn't mean it's perfect for you of course, don't get me wrong!

If you have any way to quantify what the issues are, maybe we can help.  It's pretty easy to test/quantify the black levels, which could very well be a major factor in your problem, but colors themselves are very difficult to quantify without a reference point.  Such a reference point unfortunately usually costs money. 

Here's the basic technique that I've used to calibrate my TV, and we've been so extremely happy with it.  Maybe reading through this will help in some way.  One thing the guide doesn't mention is that even if your TV cannot be calibrated, the HD4550 can be, with one exception: "Overlay".  Overlay (used by most Blu-Ray software) ignores any color corrections on the ATI cards.  I think nVidia has a way to obey them in overlay, but don't quote me on that.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Long post short, if you think black levels may be at fault, we can help.  If your colors themselves are at fault, there isn't much we can talk you through, but we'll still of course try!  This might not be the most appropriate thread for color calibration, though.  Dunno

(wow, sometimes I don't shut up, do I?  sorry)

 

djp952:

mackworth:

I would love for this too.  There seems to be a lot of different things going on in this thread, and all I know is that my colors look horrible.

Sapphire 4550 connected via HDMI to a Onkyo tx-sr606 connected via HDMI to a 46inch samsung LCD.  Running windows 7 with cat 9.6s.

If someone could make a guide that would be great.

This might be OT for this thread, but what kind of color problems are you having with the 4550?  Are you experiencing extremely dark and/or light colors, or are the colors themselves way off in your opinion?

The reason I ask is that one common thing I've seen with people's HTPCs is that many TVs do not carry their settings from input-input.  So, maybe the settings you have on one input (like the internal tuner or another HDMI source) are not the same as they are on the input you're using the PC on.

My personal experience with the 4550 (Note: catalyst 8.11) is that the color is perfect.  The exact calibration settings I use for another HDMI input and the internal tuner on my TV are also perfect for the PC.  That doesn't mean it's perfect for you of course, don't get me wrong!

If you have any way to quantify what the issues are, maybe we can help.  It's pretty easy to test/quantify the black levels, which could very well be a major factor in your problem, but colors themselves are very difficult to quantify without a reference point.  Such a reference point unfortunately usually costs money. 

Here's the basic technique that I've used to calibrate my TV, and we've been so extremely happy with it.  Maybe reading through this will help in some way.  One thing the guide doesn't mention is that even if your TV cannot be calibrated, the HD4550 can be, with one exception: "Overlay".  Overlay (used by most Blu-Ray software) ignores any color corrections on the ATI cards.  I think nVidia has a way to obey them in overlay, but don't quote me on that.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Long post short, if you think black levels may be at fault, we can help.  If your colors themselves are at fault, there isn't much we can talk you through, but we'll still of course try!  This might not be the most appropriate thread for color calibration, though.  Dunno

(wow, sometimes I don't shut up, do I?  sorry)

If def the black/white levels, sorry for not being clear.  My tv was calibrated using settings from avs forum for my model (someone used professional equipment).  Because I do my hdmi switching through my receiver, my tv is always on the same hdmi input.