If the Windows Media Center EPG could be overwritten by another, say the EPG downloaded from mc2xml, I wonder if copy protection would be a thing of the past.  The question is where is the Windows Media Center EPG saved and can it be overwritten?

 Copy protection is in the TV signal.

It may be, but I am starting to think it is also in the EPG.  Perhaps it is flagged or something.  There are programs out there such as GBPVR which records copy-protected recordings just fine and that is why I use GBPVR at the moment.

GBPVR does not support CableCARD. The copy protection is part of CableCARD.

 The other copy protection in question could be CGMS-A, and that can be ignored by not paying attention to some of the VBI data in the stream.  At some point I believe the EPG might have been used to trigger copy protection (not sure we never got a clear answer), but most if not all of the protection in question is in the broadcast stream (and/or applied within the tuner)

As others have mentioned, the protection is in the CableCARD and not the guide.  See page 42 and 43 of this PDF for the protection table: http://www.cablelabs.com/specifications/OC-SP-OCUR-I08-081114.pdf

Unfortunately, when you combine that with section 6.3 and 6.4 (below) you can end up with a ClearQAM channel which is recorded encrypted.

6.3  Analog Program Copy Protection
REQ9  The OCUR SHALL reset all analog copy protection status after a channel change. 
REQ10  The OCUR SHALL detect the analog copy protection status of the selected NTSC channel
and protect it according to Annex A. 

6.4  Digital Program Copy Protection
REQ11  The OCUR SHALL implement M-Mode copy protection as defined by OpenCable
CableCARD Copy Protection 2.0 Specification [CCCP]. 
REQ12  The OCUR SHALL NOT change the CCI value used to control content output except as
instructed by the Card or when reset after a channel change. 
REQ13   The OCUR SHALL detect the digital copy protection status of the selected digital program
and protect in accordance with Annex A.  

 Essentially, The OCUR spec requires that the OCUR honor things like the CGMS signal on an analog channel (which will likely result in an encrypted recording), even though a non-OCUR analog tuner would record it just fine.

The Copy Protection is not just in CableCard, can be in analog stream as well. I have a DirectV satellite box connected using RCA cables to a AverMedia box that allows me to record whatever the satellite is putting out, and then I use an IR blaster to change the channel on the satellite box. Whenever I record shows mostly from HBO and Showtime they are copy protected, even though I don't have CableCard and the signal coming into the computer is an analog source.

I concur. I record in analogue via an STB and some movies have been marked copy never. Only a few mind. This I presume is coming from the guide data (?)

I wonder if you're right. A good test would be to do a manual recording of the station at the time of something that you know will be copy protected and see if it is getting it from the box or from the guide.

stonethecrows

I concur. I record in analogue via an STB and some movies have been marked copy never. Only a few mind. This I presume is coming from the guide data (?)

This is coming from CGMS data in line 21 and/or Macrovision, not the guide.  The chart in the link I mentioned talks about this.

erkotz

stonethecrows

I concur. I record in analogue via an STB and some movies have been marked copy never. Only a few mind. This I presume is coming from the guide data (?)

This is coming from CGMS data in line 21 and/or Macrovision, not the guide.  The chart in the link I mentioned talks about this.

 

And again, most of that can be ignored by software by disregarding VBI data.  This is why other software (Sage, GBPVR, etc) do "see" the copy protection.

Chris - Moderator

And again, most of that can be ignored by software by dis-guarding VBI data.  This is why other software (Sage, GBPVR, etc) do "see" the copy protection.

Correct.  Unfortunately, the OCUR spec requires that OCURs honor this data, even on analog channels.

 Correct, I was speaking about analog (non-CableCARD) tuners used with cable and/or satellite. 

As I said, I use GBPVR and can record anything I want and convert it using MCEBuddy to .MP4 files which always play fine.  My set up is a Dish Network 311 STB with an Windows Media Center bean bag running to it to change channels.  The STB is hooked up with SVIDEO and RCA audio cables to a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1800 TV card.

Anyway, I seriously doubt there is anything in the actual signal/broadcast (at least for my set up).  This would easily explain why I can record/convert anything with GBPVR and MCEBuddy whereas I cannot do this with Windows Media Center and MCEBuddy on recordings from HBO, Travel Channel, and others.  The EPG used in Windows Media Center must be flagged on channels wanting copy protection.  If it was in the signal/broadcast then it would seem I would have the same issues with copy-protected channels in GBPVR correct?

I am surprised someone hasn't tried making a program to modify Windows Media Center's EPG or to replace it.

If it was in the signal/broadcast then it would seem I would have the same issues with copy-protected channels in GBPVR correct?

Not necessarily.  If GBPVR simply isn't respecting the flag (in other words, it's ignoring it), then you won't have an issue.
OTOH, MS has said quite a few times (both here, and on other forums) that they will always respect flags in a signal.  IMHO, it is safer for them that way.