captain_video

 Well, I got my Ceton CableCARD tuner on Friday the 13th and received this letter from Verizon the day after.

August 12, 2010

Dear Verizon Customer:

As part of our ongoing dedication to provide excellent service, Verizon continues to enhance and maintain its network to deliver you premium service.  We are writing to inform you that Verizon will be performing maintenance on its FiOS TV network on or after September 15, 2010, which may impact your ability to use your CableCARD compatible devices to access Verizon's FiOS TV service.

It is important to read this notice in its entirety to avoid any potential service interruptions.

Certain older televisions and other consumer electronics devices may fail to properly communicate with the CableCARD and lose the ability to tune most FiOS TV channels after the network maintenance is complete.  Please contact Verizon to discuss alternative equipment options to avoid any potential service interruption.  We can be reached Monday through Friday from 8am-6pm at 888-329-5568.

Also, CableCARD compatible TiVo used to access FiOS TV should not be impacted but you should ensure that your TiVO box has recently connected to the TiVO service.

Thank you for choosing Verizon as your entertainment provider.

Sincerely,


Verizon

The way I'm reading this is that whatever Verizon is doing to the FiOS service may only affect older CableCARD devices and not any current ones like the latest TiVos or Ceton tuners.  I'll be giving them a call on Monday to find out more details as well as set up an appointment for getting a CableCARD installed in my Ceton tuner.

I got the same notice in the mail (live in Arlington, VA).  I called the number this morning and the woman I spoke to asked what kind of equipment I had.  I told her ATI Digital Cable Tuners hooked up to a Windows 7 Media Center PC.   She told me that this was on her list of devices that are not compatible and I would have to get standard set top boxes to continue receiving digital cable.  I responded that if this was the case, I would be cancelling my service and going to Comcast :(

 Now, I take this information with a grain of salt, since I know how clueless these VZ Reps can be (really any Cable Co rep when dealing with CableCARD) so I'm going to sit and wait it out to see what happens when they do the network upgrade. 

 In the meantime, I've filed a complaint with the FCC and faxed them a copy of the notice I was sent, since they are required by law to offer CableCARDs to consumers, and think that they are trying to strongarm everyone out of them.

 Anyone have any information to the contrary?

I didn't get the letter, but my FIOS one day in may would only show basic broadcast channels. After 3 attempts to replace cable cards with 3 different technitians, one was smart enough to realize that there was an internal memo stating that ATI CableCard Tuners were not compatible anymore. I am in Buffalo, and Verizon rolled out their new encryption in May, as part of their test market. He looked it up in his computer and said there were only 4 cable card customers with ATI tuners in the service area. He tried to get Verizon CSR to get me a free able box, but they would not budge.

 He got on the phone with level 3 tech, he said that neither Microsoft nor AMD (ATI's parent company) responded to their requests to add support for the new encryption when Verizon contacted them. Ceton accepted the change and said they will incorporate new encryption into a patch.  

I switched to Time Warner and got the $200 gift card for switching all 3 services. They provide a free SDV box that works with Windows 7, although they don't officially support Windows7, only TIVO.  

 Internet is slow, channel line up in HD is limited, and I am paying $30 more... still hoping that Microsoft or AMD will release a patch, or Ceton tuners come down in price.

I really liked Verizon FIOS service we had for the last 3 years. Not a single hick up.

roder

I got the same notice in the mail (live in Arlington, VA).  I called the number this morning and the woman I spoke to asked what kind of equipment I had.  I told her ATI Digital Cable Tuners hooked up to a Windows 7 Media Center PC.   She told me that this was on her list of devices that are not compatible and I would have to get standard set top boxes to continue receiving digital cable.  I responded that if this was the case, I would be cancelling my service and going to Comcast :(

 Now, I take this information with a grain of salt, since I know how clueless these VZ Reps can be (really any Cable Co rep when dealing with CableCARD) so I'm going to sit and wait it out to see what happens when they do the network upgrade. 

 In the meantime, I've filed a complaint with the FCC and faxed them a copy of the notice I was sent, since they are required by law to offer CableCARDs to consumers, and think that they are trying to strongarm everyone out of them.

 Anyone have any information to the contrary?

 

JohnW248

I think this part of their "upgrade" which will require pairing, may impact S-cards in cableCARD ready TV sets (Like my JVC) and will introduce the CCI flags. They've been rolling this out in various parts of their footprint.  This shouldn't impact your Ceton tuner, but be sure to download the firmware upgrade for FiOS.

What about if you have ATI Digital Cable Tuners?  Will I be impacted?  I have 4?  I called Verizon CSR and they told me TIVO would still work,  but WMC would only see channels less than 46?  Sure hope that is not true?  I love my WMC and FIOS.

dudka

 He got on the phone with level 3 tech, he said that neither Microsoft nor AMD (ATI's parent company) responded to their requests to add support for the new encryption when Verizon contacted them. Ceton accepted the change and said they will incorporate new encryption into a patch.

That's the great thing about standards - there are so many to choose from.

If Verizon has managed to make a change to the CableCard spec that broke ATI DCTs (which ATI/AMD doesn't support any more, so no patch for them), but Ceton and Tivo were able to update their firmware, then someone, somewhere should be able to explain what's going on. We know that Ceton has a "FiOS firmware" update already available, presumably Tivo would just push the update out automatically, as they do other updates.

The reason that some devices will no longer work is because they are enabling simulcrypt on their network.  The issue is not really related to CCI or copy protection.  Verizon is preparing to roll out Cisco boxes and needs to support both encryption mechanisms to use both box types. 

The issue ultimately comes down to the CE device manufacturer not fully supporting the simulcrypt spec.

pcracer44

The issue ultimately comes down to the CE device manufacturer not fully supporting the simulcrypt spec.

Can you confirm that the WMC with Cablecard using ATI Tuner will NOT work past Sept 15?  Is the problem with implementation Microsoft or ATI? 

No, I can't 100% confirm whose issue it is, but I would assume it would be ATI since Ceton is able to support using the same platform.

Whatever the change is, I do not understand how Verizon is allowed to make a change to their network that will suddenly render devices from any manufactuer inoperable.   The Telecommunciations Act of 1996 and the integration ban clearly define that CableCARDs must be made available to third-party devices, which Verizon, and every other cable company has done up until this point.    

If an operator such a Verizon needs to upgrade or switch their encryption methods, then it should be done in a way that is backwards compatible and does not break all of the "legacy" devices out there.  IMO, this goes completely against the FCC regulations since any CableCARD device should work with any Host System.     All Verizon or any other cable company would need to do to effecively kill CableCARD (As if the support isn't poor enough already) would be to switch encryption mechanisms every 6 months, and eventually every device purchased in the field will be left inoperable. 

I strongly urge everyone affected by this issue to log a formal FCC complaint at the address below (it takes no more than 5 mins).   We really need to question the legality of this switch.  If this is an update the Verizon MUST make for whatever reason, then they sould be buying us all new Tuners and TVs which will now be rendered obsolete.

http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm  ( I logged my issue under Broadcast (TV and Radio), Cable, and Satellite Issues for the first Category and 'DTV Issue' for the second category)

roder

Whatever the change is, I do not understand how Verizon is allowed to make a change to their network that will suddenly render devices from any manufactuer inoperable.   The Telecommunciations Act of 1996 and the integration ban clearly define that CableCARDs must be made available to third-party devices, which Verizon, and every other cable company has done up until this point.    

the same could have been said for SDV.

I filed mine with FCC.  Verizon was only willing to pay 50% of my STB rental fee for 12 months.  Not to mention the $75 site visits to hand me the Cablecards.

I sure hope this is much ago about nothing.  What I don't understand is how TIVO would keep working, but WMC will not. 

 It was, and is the reason why they had to release Tuning Adapters.

roder

Whatever the change is, I do not understand how Verizon is allowed to make a change to their network that will suddenly render devices from any manufactuer inoperable.   The Telecommunciations Act of 1996 and the integration ban clearly define that CableCARDs must be made available to third-party devices, which Verizon, and every other cable company has done up until this point.    

If an operator such a Verizon needs to upgrade or switch their encryption methods, then it should be done in a way that is backwards compatible and does not break all of the "legacy" devices out there.  IMO, this goes completely against the FCC regulations since any CableCARD device should work with any Host System.     All Verizon or any other cable company would need to do to effecively kill CableCARD (As if the support isn't poor enough already) would be to switch encryption mechanisms every 6 months, and eventually every device purchased in the field will be left inoperable. 

I strongly urge everyone affected by this issue to log a formal FCC complaint at the address below (it takes no more than 5 mins).   We really need to question the legality of this switch.  If this is an update the Verizon MUST make for whatever reason, then they sould be buying us all new Tuners and TVs which will now be rendered obsolete.

http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm  ( I logged my issue under Broadcast (TV and Radio), Cable, and Satellite Issues for the first Category and 'DTV Issue' for the second category)

You obviously don't understand the changes that are being made.   ANY cable company that chooses to implement simulcrypt, which is a defineable cable spec, users would see the same issue.  Note that it is only a limited number of devices (such as ATI) that the manufacturer of said devices failed to fully support the spec that has long been definied.  You can't say its VZs fault that every device connected to it's network does not follow the specification outlined for digital cable.  Furthermore any provider should NOT be required to buy customers who bought products that are not supported by the manufacturer anything.   Thats not even logical.  

Any cablecard should work with any host that meets the digital cable specs as defined and supported by cablelabs, not just what the manufacturer decides they want to support.  This is up to the CE maker to correct, not the provider.  If you notice, very few or (any) that I've heard of so far CE vendors expect to have an issue, except this specific unit from ATI.  Why do think that is? 

Will the Ceton work with this change?  Does it require any changes by Microsoft?

This is a big deal.  I love my FIOS system and my Windows 7 MC.  I don't want to go back to Set Top Boxes.

I am also up to filling a Class Action suite agains AMD for not fully implementing the Spec.  I don't think they said we did everything for the Cablecard excpet xyz.  I also that the whole reason to have Cablelabs certify this stuff was to make sure it worked and was complete.

Ylinen

Will the Ceton work with this change?

Yes it will. Just make sure you are on the latest firmware. (See http://www.cetoncorp.com/infinitv/support/hwupdate.php)