I am finally ready to pull the plug on my VMC and make the switch to SageTV.  The Vista operating system and basic media center functions within Vista have worked fine, but I have grown weary of mysterious conflicts with DVRMS Toolbox, conflicts with user account controls, lack of some vista drivers.

My plan is to pull the Vista OS hard drive and set it aside in case I want to go back.  I am buying another hard drive and it will be setup on Windows XP and installing SageTV.

A couple of questions:

• I have XP MCE 2005 cd.  I would setup to keep all the MCE functions from starting.  The only thing I want is on-screen callerID within SageTV.  Can I keep the MCE callerid function running and it will work (pop-up over) SageTV?
• I have bought Showanalyzer.  Will it work with SageTV.  Can someone comment on effectiveness?
• I am on DirecTV and don't see myself changing.  I want HD and I am waiting on the DirecTV firewire tuner.  Will this also work with Sage?
• The other reason I am particularly interested in SageTV is that all the recordings are in MPEG2.  Perfect format in the event I want to burn to DVD.  No format conversions necessary.  For those already running SageTV, what are the pros and cons of sage in your mind?

Hey Growler,

you may find problems running both MCE and SageTV together at the same time - they will both be trying to capture signals etc - so I suspect you will have to completely disable it, in order to use Sage.

Tony

Growler,

Tony is right you can't run both at the same time flawlessly.

To answer your other questions

Showanalyser works fine with sagetv but also works great with media center

Good luck on the Directv tuner working with sagetv I am thinking it will be a media center only add-on I could be wrong as no one really knows but it wouldn't suprise me if it only works with media center. You could however get the upcoming Happauge component in tuner coming out the end of march and record into sagetv that way.

What are your reasons for switching to SAGETV? I made the switch because I love that they extenders stream dvd natively but eventually I came back as I had to have HDTV and I don't think the component capture cards are going to be the save all everyone thinks they will. I am now waiting on my cable card pc from dell.

 

 

PLUCKYHD:

I came back as I had to have HDTV and I don't think the component capture cards are going to be the save all everyone thinks they will.

Why not?  just out of curiosity

Tikker,

I think they will be an option and better than current options for us who build our own systems. But I think the conversion factor alone that will happen in this because will cause some picture degration maybe allot maybe not enought to be noticed. Also you are still going to be stuck with IR blasters and boxes setting everywhere fine if you have a place to hide it all not good if it is in your living room. I also see this capture card taking quite a bit of processing power I could be wrong but I think it will.

Again those are just my thoughts I considered going that route but after all things considered and the WAF I went will a dell cable card system. Now all I have to do is hope for the sdv solution within the next year.

I was about to switch to SageTv as well.  I literally had my credit card out, and then I saw that there was going to be a deal to get SageTv with the new HD extender for a fairly reduced price, so I decided to wait for the deal.  I'm glad I did, because the more I thought about it, the less sense it made.  The announcement of the Directv receiver cemented it for me.  In order to get dual HD signals from D* into sage I would need 2 of the new component cards (2x$250=$500) another HD receiver from D* (~$200 + $5/month) a new extender to replace my xbox360 ($200) and the SageTv software ($100)  That would be around $1000.  The other option is to wait for the D* box, which when released will let me deactive the 2 SDTV receivers in the basement, and the HD receiver in the living room which will save me $10 a month when I activate the new HDPC-20.  I won't need to replace anything, no more IR emitters, no re-encoded HD, possible on-demand support, native D* guide data and for far less money out of pocket, and moving forward.  It was a no-brainer other than having to wait another 8-10 months, but I've made it this long, and still get my HD fix from my HDHomerun.

Edit-- Just to add to my thoughts, my main reason for thinking of the switch was my frustration with Microsofts development times.  When I really compared the functionality and feel of both options I was left feeling like SageTv needs way more polish, and would essentially require much more "hacking" together of equiptment.  As an FYI, I switched back to MCE2005 until the D* solution comes out, because I couldn't use the serial control hack in Vista.  Sage would have fixed this, but taken a step back in UI, so it really made no sense.

Jeonuh,

I agree with most of your post. You went throught the same thought process I did only I use cable and not directv. Sagetv definately needs some polishing and from reading on their forums the hd extenders still have their share of problems. I have only had my xbox 360 lock up on me once other than that I have been problem free on the extender end.

Here is hoping you get our directv fix soon and I get a sdv fix soon.

PLUCKYHD:

What are your reasons for switching to SAGETV?  

I guess frustration.  Don't get me wrong Vista itself has been OK just seems everything else has been a pain.  I will try not to whine.  Just what I dealt with.  Prior to all this I would have rated myself as an average to above average computer user/troubleshooter. I guess I was wrong.

• CallerID-
• Struggled getting callerid to work.  First modem was Vista compatible, but the driver not CallerID capable. 
• I bought a second modem based on a recommendation from someone here.  The USR modem did do caller ID fine, but due to UAC it would not load the entire driver set when rebooting.  I did not want to have to manually start programs at every reboot just to make this modem work for caller ID.  USR offered no solution except to call Microsoft.  Got little help at MS forum, too.
• Switched back to the original modem.  Looked at driver file and compared to other drivers for similar products and saw the callrid sections.  Mine had nothing about callerid.  I finally found a modified XP driver that works and boots fine.
• CallerID works fine in Vista, but not in MCE.   Sort of losing interest by now.
• BTW- through all this I tried out 3 different callerid programs.  None seem to work consistently in MC.
• DVRMS-Toolbox-
• After weeks of farting around with it and trying to get help on their forum I managed to get it working. 
• Commercial skip was about 50% accurate.  Purchased SA. 
• More accurate now, but still needs tweaking.  Probably about 75% accurate
• In checking the performace monitor I see frequent references with errors related to DVRMSToolbox shutting down or locking up (can't remember)
• Vista
• Like I said, Vista itself works OK.  My problem is that I see what I want to do and see that it would be simple if I was working in XP, but it always gets complicated with Vista.  The modem is a good example.  I finally ended up using an XP driver.  That whole thing would have been a none issue in XP.  Drivers are tried and true.

My needs are simple:

• DirecTV- Virtually my only option.  I don't want to fool with IR blasters only to SD.  Want to wait on DTV standalone receiver and go with their HD package.
• Commercial skip-  Main reason I built this thing in the first place.  I can get a free HD DVR from D*TV.  May not have commercial skip, but free vs $2400? (yes I went overboard)
• On screen callerid-  Sure would be nice, but I don't know the secret handshake.

SageTV

• I think I would have many of the same issues if I installed SageTV in the Vista environment.  This is why I am considering using XP.
• The single biggest draw is silly, but I like the idea that the recorded files are already in MPEG2 format.  No secondary conversions.

I like the easy setup and finished look of Vista MC.  I like both better than SageTV, but functionality is more important to  me.

Really curious.  What are other good reasons people are switching?

Not really trying to stop you from switching, but understand that commerical skip in Sage is still going to use ComSkip or SA (I think you can choose).  Detection is done by those, it's no different if DVRMSToolbox is helping it or Sage.  The detection will be the same, DVRMSToolbox just automates the process from a Media Center perspective (and provide the UI).  Sage will yeild the exact same results.

Chris is mostly right although sage uses file watcher in place of dvrms toolbox. The other big difference Is commercial skip ui itself is built into sage mc. Filewatcher is a little more reliable than dvrms toolbox.

Sagetv has is problems to don't think you will switch and it will be flawless. Just trying to prepare you in all honesty you need more computer experience and more time to get sagetv working and the interface like you like it. I liked being able to customize the interface but in the end there were just to many ups to media center as compared to SAGETV. I believe the only way you will ever get directv hd in sagetv is with the component Happauge card I really believe the new hd directv tuners will only work in media center as they have put the time and money into it and I don't see it being allowed outside of media center. 

PLUCKYHD:

Chris is mostly right although sage uses file watcher in place of dvrms toolbox. The other big difference Is commercial skip ui itself is built into sage mc. Filewatcher is a little more reliable than dvrms toolbox.

I'm not talking about file watcher or the UI, Sage is still going to use the exact same detection software that DVRMSToolbox (and thus Media Center) uses.  So, if for whatever reason he is seeing 50% accuracy with ComSkip and DVRMSToolbox, the accuracy should be the exact same with Sage as ComSkip is doing the work.  If DVRMSToolbox with SA is 75%, Sage with SA is 75%.

Now, if your problem is with the file watcher or DVRMSToolbox crashing and preventinng the XML files from being read within Media Center then moving to Sage would help in this case.

Chris - Moderator:

Now, if your problem is with the file watcher or DVRMSToolbox crashing and preventinng the XML files from being read within Media Center then moving to Sage would help in this case.

Yes, I am aware othat Sage will also be using either comskip or showanalyzer.   I am using Showanalyzer now and it works OK.  I just need to get it tweaked a bit more to get it working more effiectively.   The problem part is DVRMS Toolbox locking up and crashing.  It mostly does this without my knowing.  I just see it in the performace monitor and it bothers me.  I trying hard to make this computer to run correctly.  I keep checking the performance monitor to see how effective I have been.  This is where I see the entries for DTB failures.

Let me reiterate.  I have no axe to grind with Vista MC.  I actually like it a lot.  It is very wife-friendly.  I think my frustration lies with the OS w/ User Account Controls and that I know most of the problems would not be a problem in XP.   

I really do appreciate the feedback.  The single point someone made that will probably have me hold off from switching is that the new DTV receiver maybe for media center only.   It is a must-have.

 

Hi Growler,

have you considered turning UAC off?

Tony

Tony_Park:

Hi Growler,

have you considered turning UAC off?

Tony

lol!@  I don't mean to laugh, but in looking back I know how absurd it must look to say how UAC was being problematic when it is so easy to turn off.

Yes, in fact, it is off now.  I know this sounds strange, but I was trying to run Vista like it was meant to be run (from MS at least).  I desparately tried to leave UAC intact and do what I needed to do, but in the end the only thing that allowed Tapirex and USR modem to run at bootup was to turn UAC off.

I've had mine switched off since I tried to use FireSTB, and just never turned it back on again when I changed tuner - forgot how much of a pain it can be :-D

Tony