Hi all,

Just sharing my experiences here. It is a pleasure reading on this forum so let me do something in return.

With Vista available now for a while I decided to give it a run. I have been running, quite happily, but with some gripes, MCE2005 for about 1.5 years and decided to give the new Vista a try.

My current setup:
Hardware
Shuttle SN42G2 V3, with AMD XP 3000+, 2x 512Gb Corsairs mem, NEC 3420 DVD, 1x 500Gb, 1x320 Gb sata drives, Hauppage PVR-500 dual tuner, WUSB54G wireless, M$ remote, Radeon 9600 with DVI-D connected with 1366x768 (powerstrip hack) to LCD37 Sharp Aquos.

Software
This is my HTPC, no non necessary software/games. Availability is a must!!

MCE2005, all patches, nero for it's dvd speed trottling, Purevideo MPG2 codec, xvid MPG4, RD hack (got to do remote admin!)  TweakUI for auto login and that's it!

The 500Gb is the pri drive and partitioned, 7.5G for OS (C:) , rest for media (D:) and the 320Gb for media too (E:)

This is all quite working well!

MCE Vista
I used Acronis to back up my entire MCE2005 partition before I started. I got the RTM copy of Vista and installed VHpremium since it is the smallest release supporting MCE and with a RD hack available it would probably the best candidate for a HTPC.  I tried some of  the many many vista reg's out  there but ended up applying PARADOX hack (for me, the HP variant worked, the ASUS didn't).

Install
The install required at least 67xx Mb. I had to format (must have been a quick format) the 7.5Gb partition, after the install was done, I had 800Mb left. The Vista footprint it clearly bigger then MCE2005 (About 3 Gb). Also there seems to be something funky going on with the bootloader. It booted fine but witout the install DVD in, it would ask for a boot loader!!!! I had to CHANGE the boot sequence of the SATA's and then it worked. (I know now, that the bootloader was installed on the OTHER DISC!!!!) I am savvy with these things but could see it as an issue for others.

Updates
The word is that the Nforce2 chip set is not supported in Vista, and after initial install, the hauppage and no sound was available. I did an M$ update and found it to be quick and easy. After this ALL my h/w issues were sorted, all was recognised and no missing gear. I plugged in  the remote and that worked out of the box, then plugged in the WUSB54G. This was not recognised but after the Vista driver this was also working fine. So far so good! All the h/w in place!

Customisation
I had installed it using a VGA monitor and chose the 1360x768 resolution. When connecting to the Sharp, the DVI interface and the Radeon settled on 1280x768. This was the same in MCE2005, and I used powerstrip to fix that for MCE2005. That would be a similar extra project in Vista.

The performance rating was a 3.4 for my system, but to boast performance, I disabled ALL big brother features, so no firewall, no UAC, I set the system for 'optimal performance', no system montoring, basically every service I could find that would take resources away from the main goal: A no frills, quick, reliable HTPC system.

MCE setup
The setup is very similar to the 2005 version, and it went smooth. I am in the USA and so the guide etc all work fine. I detected my 2 tuners and setup of the channels was flawless. As a nice gesture, MPG2 works out of the box, so there would not be a need for the Purecoder add on, the channels worked!

The new interface
The interface, is clean but it's making me nauseous, luckily one is able to set it for no sound and no transition effects, there is now a horizontal dimension to it, when you select media or pics, you can actually scroll left and right for more options. This is similar to e.g. bringing back one of the 3 last viewed videos in 2005.

There is also a 'Sport' section, great for sports fans (that is US sports fan's (NBA, MLB, etc I couldn't find snooker!) and in my view this should be an Add on for sports buff's but alas.

The blue is darker in the Vista interface and I have to say that it looks great, it is also a bit quicker then MCE2005, for instance, when accepting the guide rules, one has to scroll down 60 or so pages and with 2005 this was a pain, having to repress the down key on the remote. In Vista this scrolled down so nicely. The same effects in menu's. I have to conclude that it *handles* nicer, smoother and quicker to my remote.

Adding media
There is more a focus on 'Media' as a whole, compared to the strictly segregation of video, tv, pictures and music in MCE2005. By default Vista has already some folders that are being watched, all the usual "My *" crap but you can deselect them to not monitor, so no biggy. The main difference as noted above is that you make a watch folder for Media, so wether you want to add pictures or music, or video's, there's no difference and you add them in the Library settings...

This has a HUGE consequence... if your video's folder have pictures in them, the folder shows up when browsing for Pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a big NO for me, I need to have a clean and minimalist view of what I intend to do, if I want to browse for pictures and see picture folders ONLY.

I also have a folder with DVD rips, basically the VOB files which, when added to video's in 2005 play nicely but in Vista, since there might have been a pic in some folders it did show up in Pictures, but not in Media!!!! Trying to add it there is pointless, because you are arriving at the same Library setting page and so I found that it was already monitored. I have yet to find out how to play ripped DVD's but I am sure you can.

Watching Media
Watching TV worked but crapped out because of disc space issues, didn't pursue that further, it worked OK.

Even after adding the xvid decoder, I was not able to play all my vid's.... didn't spend too much time in addressing that. I have always suspected the Purecoder to also decode some mpg4 streams, but basically with Purecoder and xvid on my MCE2005 I was able to see all.

Browsing pics is great! The way they are lined up makes total sense to me and it is a pleasure to see them this way. However, Vista still does not rotate (like Picassa) if you have taken a pic with the camera vertical, c'mon!!!!

Final thoughts
I am sure the RD hacked worked but I didn't try it, Also the auto login for a user is probably around the corner (I use TweakUI). I imagine that the amount of plug ins are increasing. I use non of them in 2005 so don't see it is crucial components. So I think one could tweak Vista to be like one wants. It is a nice platform and it looks and handles great. If you are a 2005 user and happy with it? I see no reason to migrate to Vista.

Conclusion
After playing with it for 2 days I called it quits and put my 2005 image back. Out of the box Vista looks, and handles great but I don't see any 'aha;. 'yes finally' or WOW features that would even be remotely interesting to pursue an upgrade. The way one has to browse for media is tedious. You could potentially have to skip over 10 video folders to get your pictures. If a system came preloaded, then sure, you could get used to it and I wouldn't wipe it off but currently I am very far away from upgrading.

On my h/w I have to say the Vista handles nicer, boots quicker but all that added up doesn't give me a *better* eperience. The focus of a HTPC should be on experiencing the media it is hosting, with Vista it seems the intend was to focus on experiencing Vista.

Pro's of Vista
Quick boot
Cool looking interface
Very usable (handling)

Con's
Large footprint (but who cares really)
Media experience is a step back
Not really any additional  feautures compared to MCE2005.

Feel free to comment, send private mail or ask questions. I'll watch the post for bit.

Best, Bas

Couldn't agree more. I also hated the pictures from my dvd folders being added in my pictures agreviated me to now end. Also added the pictures form my music folders!!!! I too went back to mce 2005 after trying vista for 2 weeks. The only thing that will make me go back is cable card support (where I can build it don't see it happening) or Sattellite support ( I am hopefuly of this.)

 

I obviously have no concern on whether someone chooses to stay with MCE 2005 or go with Vista but thought I'd mention that most if not all of you cons with Vista Media Center can be alleviated with settings.  i.e. You can replace the Sports strip, you can setup auto-logon in Vista using a more secure method than TweakUI uses, ...
 
Personally I instantly liked the look and feel of Vista Media Center.  I've setup HTPCs for friends and several initially hated the upgrade to VMC but after using it for a couple weeks prefer it.  I also feel that Vista Media Center and Vista in general has dumb downed their setup options (i.e. single library for pictures, music and videos) but I can also understand why they did.  Unlike MCE 2005, VMC has a much larger customer base and I feel Microsoft has attempted to simplify the product accordingly.  Going forward I’d like to two setups modes, the default basic setup and an advanced user setup.

Anyways, just my 2 cents…

"Unlike MCE 2005, VMC has a much larger customer base..."

Eh?  I'm sure there are a *lot* more HTPC users on MCE 2005 than VMC right now...

MartinC:

"Unlike MCE 2005, VMC has a much larger customer base..."

Eh?  I'm sure there are a *lot* more HTPC users on MCE 2005 than VMC right now...

An OEM only (and MSDN Subscribers) operating system versus a commercially available operating system, sorry don't think so.  If anything I should have should much larger potential customer base.

Good review and thoughts. I tried Vista MCE when it was in Release canadate 2 (5744) and after a lot of tweaking, I got it running as good if not better than MCE 2005. I kind of liked the interface but, it needs better gear to run it right. The pictures I thought where a nightmare to scroll though, where I just disabled access to my picture folders (on another machine). Over all, pretty cool. The DRM/CGMS-A issues that popped up on Vista made me go back to 2005. I did try to reinstall with the retail version(on another drive) and got poor perfomance. I didn't try to really tweak though.

I will stay with MCE 2005 for now, unless QAM HD support pops up for Vista with out having to spend another $200 on hardware.

Good review and enjoy MCE 2005 as I am !!!

-Dave

Thanks for the roundup.

pansab,

I couldn't agree more with your review.  Stay with MCE 2005, Microsoft missed the boat big time on this release.  I upgraded for new features like the mini guide and the fancy translucent ui, but it has definitely not been worth the slower library performance, the library issues, file sharing issues, and the loss of other features as well as the additional cost to upgrade. 

I cannot understand what Microsoft was thinking when they released this version.  If the rumors are true of a new release next year I would wait for that to upgrade, because there is no way they could possibly release a worst version than this one. 

 

I found this a very well-balanced review.

A couple of notes: 

• With the "right" hardware, I believe VistaMCE is more stable than MCE.  That said, it can be a challenge to understand what the right hardware is.  Best to look at the manufacturer's website.
• Everyone has their own perspective on the new UI.  I love it. 
  
• I think the library management mixup is a little disappointing and this is the only drawback for me on Vista.  I'm hopeful that it'll be fixed.

In the end, it's been a really nice upgrade for me.  Being something that sits in my living room and is on most of the time, I'm primarily concerned with the UI and the reliability.  Both are improved in Vista.

Aaron

kc8emd:

pansab,

I couldn't agree more with your review.  Stay with MCE 2005, Microsoft missed the boat big time on this release.  I upgraded for new features like the mini guide and the fancy translucent ui, but it has definitely not been worth the slower library performance, the library issues, file sharing issues, and the loss of other features as well as the additional cost to upgrade. 

I cannot understand what Microsoft was thinking when they released this version.  If the rumors are true of a new release next year I would wait for that to upgrade, because there is no way they could possibly release a worst version than this one. 

 

I'm not really sure this is what pansab was saying in his review.  But thats niether here nor there.

Question:  what "library performance" issues are you having?  My Vista library is faster and smoother in every way.  (roughly 7k tracks I think)

Aaron

It may depend on the type of files you have in your library and the formats they are in.  My xvid video library is about 400gb and exist both locally and on a network share and both has slowed to a crawl in VMC when scrolling.  It will hang and then jump past the selection and then the thumbnails are very slow to load and are probably causing the hanging.  I never experienced this in mce 2005. 

Also, my music library has been experiencing the same effects and is about 10gb and stored locally.  Pictures library seem to work ok but not as fast as before. 

Machine specs are 3.2 p4, 2 gb ram, 256 mb graphics, gigabit network.

 

I upgraded my HTPC this week to vista for a few days and I'm now back to MCE 2005.

In my opinion I agree completely with Bas's Statement, "Out of the box Vista looks, and handles great but I don't see any 'aha;. 'yes finally' or WOW features that would even be remotely interesting to pursue an upgrade."

For me and my family, Vista's platform and interface was too overwhelming for HTPC purpose only. I'm sure it will prove to be superior down the road, but I not upgrading my HTPC anytime soon.

I'm sitting here grinning because I've been using Vista Ultimate x64 since August of last year and it's never crashed, or stalled, not one BSOD, no sudden restarts, no hiccups.  MCE 2005 works that way on my wife's HTPC, but never did on mine.  I've been able to install more 3rd Party software on this Vista install than my previous MCE install.  Sorry you dude's seem to have issues with Vista.  Works great for me...

cgsheen makes a very good point in that I don't feel afraid to add stuff, or change things to my VMC setups now. Once I got my mce2005 running, that was it, I didn't dare touch anything in case it screwed things up.

However, though I won't go back to mce2005, I'm still having little irritations and annoyances with VMC. I've missed a couple of shows for no apparent reason. I certainly had a few issues with daylight saving (I think!). I do find warning messages and errors on the vmc interface and I've no idea what is going on, referring to guide conflicts and stuff. I was hoping that my wife would allow us to get rid of the video recorder at long last, but if there's a show we definitley don't want to miss we make sure that we've videoed it as well. So the WAF in regards to confidence is not high. I too find the menu layout and the folder issue very frustrating.

It will get there though. I hope that the SP will sort most of this stuff out. Give it another 6-9 months and we'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

As Pansab said above:
"The focus of a HTPC should be on experiencing the media it is hosting, with Vista it seems the intend was to focus on experiencing Vista."  That's my impression exactly.

Vista looks very sweet, but the navigation in non-intuitive.  After trying Vista RC1, RC2, & RTM each very briefly, I always returned to my MCE2005 install.  When my Vista upgrade CD arrived, I installed again and this time got everything working nice, but the navigation ruined it for me.

My solution: I installed MyThemesMCE and loaded the Vista theme for MCE2005.  Now I have the UI / navigation that I love with the excellent eye candy of Vista.  Background, buttons, guide, everything is beautiful.

Backed up my latest Vista install for my next HW upgradewhen HD DVD drives are available and affordable.

My $0.03