The only difference between a Tru2Way TV and a normal cablecard TV is that it has a modem in it that can communicate back to the DAC to send responses from the TV.  The UI could either be from the cable system or from the manufacturer.  Gemstar guide data is already being sent.

Now considering that most of us have cable modems, but usually not dedicated to a single PC which would probably be the case if MCE wanted to play in the Tru2Way game.

Jim

Jim_IT:

The only difference between a Tru2Way TV and a normal cablecard TV is that it has a modem in it that can communicate back to the DAC to send responses from the TV.  The UI could either be from the cable system or from the manufacturer.  Gemstar guide data is already being sent.

Now considering that most of us have cable modems, but usually not dedicated to a single PC which would probably be the case if MCE wanted to play in the Tru2Way game.

Jim, I wish you were right, but you are incorrect.

Tru2way is much more than just a two-way 3rd party CableCARD standard. In fact CE companies just wanted a two-way protocol (DCR+), but CableLabs refused and we got tru2way instead. 

The fact is that the only software that can "talk" upstream is the cable co's so you first have to download it and load it on the local Java VM. So MS would have to support Java and load the cable co's code.

You can read more here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/tru2way

Well, I guess I shouldn't be defining, setting up & testing one of top 3 MSO's Tru2Way platform launching July 1st.  I'll immediately tell my boss to pull me from the project.  I should probably get pulled from HSD wireless project we are lauching too.

CableCards by design are one way.  Both (S)ingle & (M)ulti stream cards.  The HSD modem built into equipment is what completes the the loop back to the headend.

I know I can write code in multiple languages with the same inputs and outputs, so why couldn't MS simply do the same.  Just because the TV's are using java doesn't mean that you have to.  It was just simpler for them to use jvm because of size and all of the java enabled devices on the market.

Because TV's are customer owned pieces of equipment, means that there is no additional security besides the paring of the cablecard with the device and the mac address of the modem.

Jim

Bottom line, I want a SDV solution for MCE asap so I can throw away this horrible Time Warner cable box.

Jim_IT:

Well, I guess I shouldn't be defining, setting up & testing one of top 3 MSO's Tru2Way platform launching July 1st.  I'll immediately tell my boss to pull me from the project.  I should probably get pulled from HSD wireless project we are lauching too.

CableCards by design are one way.  Both (S)ingle & (M)ulti stream cards.  The HSD modem built into equipment is what completes the the loop back to the headend.

I know I can write code in multiple languages with the same inputs and outputs, so why couldn't MS simply do the same.  Just because the TV's are using java doesn't mean that you have to.  It was just simpler for them to use jvm because of size and all of the java enabled devices on the market.

Because TV's are customer owned pieces of equipment, means that there is no additional security besides the paring of the cablecard with the device and the mac address of the modem.

Just because you can define, setup and test tru2way doesn't mean you understand the technology.

I promise you that you're mistaken, call CableLabs if you don't believe me. I know I didn't believe it until I talked to them myself. Ask for Michael Schwartz, he's the senior vice president of communications and will be more than happy to explain to you the subtle but distinct difference between tru2way and a 2-way CableCARD host devices.

The fact is that all CableCARDs are two-way as they only authorize the host device. Any cable operator can deploy a two-way CableCARD device and has been for years. The difference is that tru2way is designed for 3rd party hosts devices and requires java.

I've written a few pieces on this topic, and agree it is confusing. They are dated, but some of the information is still relative.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/15/there-is-no-cablecard-2-0/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/17/time-warner-cable-deploys-150k-opencable-stbs-aka-cablecard-2-0/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/19/cablecard-2-0-caught-in-the-wild/

Of course it is possible to write code to use the modem in the device, but CableLabs will not certify the device. They will only certify devices that host the tru2way (aka OCAP) software.

Hopefully this will change, but as it stands now, that is the reality of the situation.

NoUse2808:

Bottom line, I want a SDV solution for MCE asap so I can throw away this horrible Time Warner cable box.

You don't need Tru2Way for SDV. The Tivo tuning adapter is device that transmits the request back to the cable headend for the selected channel--my old (2005) SA8500 HD boxes also support SDV and VOD. There is no need for a new cablecard, all cablecards can work in this environment, it does require a new host or an adapter.

Since we have a date on Win7, now we can look for a firmware update from ATI. Ideally there would be a new ATI host device that would support Tru2Way as well as multi stream decoding like the Ceton device. I don't know what the status of the Ceton device is with Cablelabs. The rumors are that the ATI firmware re-write is undergoing certification now.

John

Cablevision now has Switched video adapters for TIVO.  You need to rent cable cards and then you will need to get the adapter from them.... Oh ... I almost forgot.. You can only get one if you are suscribed to a premium package. WHAT A BUNCH OF WEASELS. They rent you cards that don't get most of the channels you wan't anymore because they moved then to Switched video and then they force you too buy programming you do not want to be able to watch what was taken from you. Here is the info from their site:

-->

Tuning Adapter Now Available for TiVo HD DVRs
	Question
	Tuning Adapter Now Available for TiVo HD DVRs
	Answer
	A Tuning Adapter is a device that connects to your CableCARD-equipped TiVo HD DVR and allows you to view Switched Digital Video (SDV) channels. Tuning adapters are not currently available for any device other than the HD TiVo units listed below. The Tuning Adapter is currently being provided to our customers at no charge. Requirements TiVo Requirements TiVo software version 9.4 or higher and one of the following TiVo DVRs: TiVo HD DVR TiVo HD XL DVR TiVo Series3™ HD DVR The Tuning Adapter will not function with other CableCARD devices, such as an HDTV, Moxi HD DVR or PC TV tuner. Subscription Requirements Customers must subscribe to one of the following services: iO en español, iO Russian, iO Korean, and other subscription international programming. MLB Extra Innings, NBA League Pass, NHL Center Ice, and other subscription sports programming. iO Sports Pak (in order to receive NHL Network HD). iO Silver or iO Gold (in order to receive all of the included HD channels). HBO, Showtime, Cinemax Starz/Encore individual movie packages (in order to receive all of the included HD channels).

Ponce4f:

Oh ... I almost forgot.. You can only get one if you are suscribed to a premium package. WHAT A BUNCH OF WEASELS

99% sure that because only their premium content is on the switched tier.  No reason to offer you the TA unless you subscribe to something that could possibly need it.

Does anyone have any update on ATI, Ceton, or any other company that will support SDV? 

How long do you think, we'll have to wait for it?

 I don't pay for several DCT's that will become obsolete.

Also, any news on Dish TV's Draco Project?  I can't find an update anywhere.

Thanks.

I was really hoping we'd have more news from ATI on their firmware update as I'm just about to take the plung.

So, no more news on this? Windows 7 is pretty much out. It's rather dissapointing.

Windows 7 doesn't come out until the end of October. You'll have to wait that long to be officially dissapointed. ;)

bjdraw

Windows 7 doesn't come out until the end of October. You'll have to wait that long to be officially dissapointed. ;)

Sad but, I'm sure it's true....

Well, RTM has already been released to MSDN and TechNet subscribers. Even so, the fix is supposed to be in combination between Win7 and ATI Firmware update. I've yet to hear anything about the ATI Firmware Update.

If this works anything like the TA on the Tivo HD, then you'll need the firmware upgrade from ATI which will add a tab in the device marked SDV and there you'll have a whole series of NEW diagnostic apps. I fully expect that between Win7, the ATI update you'll be able to attache the Cisco or Moto adapter (depending on your cable system equipment) and get SDV.

What I don't know yet is how many TA will be required. I have one running on a Tivo and waiting for the necessary ATI update and Win7 to connect another one to MC.

What I'd love to know is if the SDV channels are sent on their existing VCT frequencies, if so one TA on a Tivo would enable the channel on MC and on a OCUR Tv set.

John