cfaslave:

Unless I read it wrong, I think what he is saying is that users of "VMC" in general are a "niche group" compared to most users of the Vista OS and don't justify Microsoft catering to those users wants and desires because they make up such a small sub-segment of their sales.  That doesn't mean MS won't give the features people want by any means, it just means it's less of a priority to them.

Who cares if Mediacenter is a niche group amongst the Vista users.
If MS feels the same as you do, then I am afraid they have an attitude problem.
Either you create a product (Mediacenter) and then you stand behind it, or you don't create it in the first place.
Developing it halfheartedly is not going to do it.
Why else has Microsoft lost so much market share in the browser market to Firefox ?
Exactly, because they were resting on their laurels, thinking that people would continue to use their product forever, just because it came preinstalled.

To me MS is more and more looking like a spoiled child that wants to take a hundred different classes, but succeeds in none.
Wasn't Mediacenter originally something they bought from an innovative company with a lot of creative talent ?
I wonder how much better it would have been if they hadn't meddled with it.

Since this conversation has gotten so off topic and it's pretty obvious that Microsoft won't be responding with a confirmation or denial of this rumor, I'll throw my two cents in.

If in fact Media Center users are only 1000 out of millions, you would figure that IF Microsoft continues to develop this product (which I really think they should), then why don't they place more importance on the opinions of those FEW users.  I see so many outcries for more HD support and many other important feature requests, yet I hear that one of the most proud new features of Fiji will be widescreen thumbnails (WOW!).  Sounds like they really listened.

I can understand if they don't want to put as much time/effort/money into a project with a smaller user base, but when they decide to improve it, shouldn't they do something that the smaller user base of people want?  Otherwise you're losing your existing fan base and not gaining new ones.

My main statement here is that since MS is developing MC for a "few" users, then the opinions of those "few" users should matter all that much more!

Every one one of the Fiji beta testers I've talked to tell me that the most recent release candidate (RC0) is OEM only.

None of them have received this email however, but they have received correspondence from MS stating that Fiji was due in July and that it would be OEM only.

Jeff posted in another thread that we wouldn't hear anything official to around CEDIA (September), which makes sense that they'd announce all the new feature at a show.

boulder2:

I had no idea that HD support was a niche feature.
So, what 's next ?
Colour support for 2010, because not everyone has a colour TV set ?

I'll leave the smartass remark aside and will re-iterate the fact I am making.  SageTV is a single product aimed at a core group of users.  They sell their product to those users and make money off of it.  sageTV doesn't sell an OS, Office, a Web server, exchange, etc.

Their core business is SageTV itself.

Microsoft's core business is not Media Center.

You can get HD right now via OTA, or via CableCard, which works perfectly.  For BluRay support, how long did it take from the inception of the DVD until MS actually included codec's?  Try TotalMedia's player and get the integration you are looking for.

Yes International support sucks, but honestly, are you suprised?  The user base of VMC users in the US is slim, it's even more slim over seas.  Perhaps, MS should just pull Media Center out of overseas installs, so those minimal few will stop screaming. 

It's not an all in one solution, it's not MS' core business. Face it.

-D

Aren't we being a little silly about the OEM only concept. Haven't most of the latest releases come out as OEM only...at first. Letting vendors do the leg work at first can help assusure everything is fixed and working before a general release, plus MS gets to borrow the tech support departments of the vendors for at least 1st level support.

There is no way Fiji won't be a general release, but it might well be a few months after vendors first receive and a month or so after they sell their first machines.

No point in getting too worked up about OEM only, unless we find out it will always be OEM only.

 

However, I do agree that MS doesn't seem to be putting as much into MC as I think they should. If they aren't going to be more agressive with this product, they should back off, build less, but put in hooks for 3rd parties to extend the system...in effect MC becomes an OS within an OS for supporting centralized media. I don't really care which way they go, just so long as they do clearly do one or the other.

And thanks to the MS MC developers. I'm sure you guys are even more annoyed than many of us about all the features that aren't being put in. Worse the ones you mostly developed and then have pulled...that would drive me nuts. I'm glad you persist in your effors. Thanks again!

docmattman:

If in fact Media Center users are only 1000 out of millions, you would figure that IF Microsoft continues to develop this product (which I really think they should), then why don't they place more importance on the opinions of those FEW users.

Would you be willing to spend $5 million dollars of your own money per year, so you can sell 5,000 extra copies of Vista?  Wait... your have already sold the copies to the people who use VMC.  So hey, can I borrow $5million so I can get some features added?  I'll hit you back at Windows 7.

I give up, I don't know how else to paint the picture for some people unless I break out the crayons and paper.

-D

bjdraw:

Every one one of the Fiji beta testers I've talked to tell me that the most recent release candidate (RC0) is OEM only.

None of them have received this email however, but they have received correspondence from MS stating that Fiji was due in July and that it would be OEM only.

Jeff posted in another thread that we wouldn't hear anything official to around CEDIA (September), which makes sense that they'd announce all the new feature at a show.

I've updated the geektonic post to clarify with this information.  A person I've been talking to overseas swears the e-mail is legit, but I'm not convinced at this point and it doesn't matter that much anyway as Ben says the general release wouldn't be until a bit later.

dravor:

Would you be willing to spend $5 million dollars of your own money per year, so you can sell 5,000 extra copies of Vista?

No, but if I were MS and DID decide to spend money to develop an update, I would probably spend the resources on features that all the current users have been requesting instead of things like widescreen thumbnails.

docmattman:

dravor:

Would you be willing to spend $5 million dollars of your own money per year, so you can sell 5,000 extra copies of Vista?

No, but if I were MS and DID decide to spend money to develop an update, I would probably spend the resources on features that all the current users have been requesting instead of things like widescreen thumbnails.

Your making assumptions as if you know the amount of actual requests for each requested change.  You are also making assumptions about the costs involved.

So you want MS to work on the things you want, because those are most important to you.  Forget about other requests that are no relevant to you?

So what is the right approach for Microsoft?  They are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Here they are trying to go with multiple releases to make some of you happy...... and a large majority of people *** because of what the update is apparently lacking.

Yet if they wait longer between releases, to release everything at once further down the road, a ton of people *** that they are not releasing smaller things along the way.

Either way people are gonna ***.  It's so easy to *** about things when you don't know what all it entails.

As a last note, for those of you who havn't been on boards where the manufacturer has a presence, all these flames and flagrant outburts from people against MS and the product, all you are going to do is drive the people away that we've been trying to get here all along.

We are better off with MS on site.  So before you reply with a "add it or I'm living threat" and before bombarding a MS employee about how  horrible the product is, see the point of view, and deal with it.

We are all adults here.  The product could use some additions.  Some we will see, some will never see.  Let's just take everything at face value and quit making it a pie throwing session.


-D

dravor:

So you want MS to work on the things you want, because those are most important to you.  Forget about other requests that are no relevant to you?

That's not what I said.  I said the opinions of the user base (not just me personally), which can be quite easily gathered by reading through the forums here. 

As a software developer myself, if I create a system for only a few users, then when I go to update that system, I won't put what I want in there.  I'll put what those few users want.

You're missing my whole point.  I'm not saying that MS should spend more millions than they actully do to improve MC.  The fact is that they have decided to create Fiji (whatever the cost may be).  Now, since they have decided to put money into the project, just attempt to give the users what they want instead of what MS thinks they want.

dravor:

Would you be willing to spend $5 million dollars of your own money per year, so you can sell 5,000 extra copies of Vista?  Wait... your have already sold the copies to the people who use VMC.  So hey, can I borrow $5million so I can get some features added?  I'll hit you back at Windows 7.
I give up, I don't know how else to paint the picture for some people unless I break out the crayons and paper.

Oh, but wait, can't the same be said from several features that were included in Vista ?
With this kind of reasoning you could strip Vista down by a thousand features.
I bet it would also make it a lot faster.

This is shortsightedness all over.
Please give up explaining erroneous matters, but hey, have fun with your crayons.

Ahhhh...reading threads like this really make me pat myself on the back for making the move to SageTV.  Funny thing is, MS did not lose a dime from my moving to another media management application...I still have to buy Vista in order to run Sage.  Media Center is not a money making app for MS, so, they do what they can with it on a limited buget, and that's it.  Sage, on the other hand, charges for their product...it is their product and how they pay their bills.  Hence, they are much more responsive to customer requirements and needs and industry trends. 

How could anyone have not expected this "update" to be a major disappointment?

Hey Mr Lobster,

Actually, you can run SageTV on a multitude of OSs including OSX and Linux I do believe :) So in other works, you DON'T need to purchase MS software to run it. I'm sure you know this, but I wanted to let people know that :)

---

SirMeili:

Hey Mr Lobster,

Actually, you can run SageTV on a multitude of OSs including OSX and Linux I do believe :) So in other works, you DON'T need to purchase MS software to run it. I'm sure you know this, but I wanted to let people know that :)

Ya know, I honestly completely forgot about that! :)  COOL! 

Although, having struggled through several Linux installations in the past, I think I'll stick with Vista, but you're 100% correct!