ghostlobster:

Ahhhh...reading threads like this really make me pat myself on the back for making the move to SageTV.  Funny thing is, MS did not lose a dime from my moving to another media management application...I still have to buy Vista in order to run Sage.  Media Center is not a money making app for MS, so, they do what they can with it on a limited buget, and that's it.  Sage, on the other hand, charges for their product...it is their product and how they pay their bills.  Hence, they are much more responsive to customer requirements and needs and industry trends. 

How could anyone have not expected this "update" to be a major disappointment?

I don't agree with this reasoning.
If Mediacenter is part of Vista, then that is purely because Microsoft decided it to be.
They could have easily sold it as a separate package, just like they do with Office.
So in the end if this was a bad decision to make, it was theirs, and it 's probably part of their obsession to bundle everything with Windows, in order to get Windows to look more attractive.
So what is the actual value of Mediacenter in that Windows package ?
If it really means nothing to them in terms of sales, why did they not create a separate Media Center Edition version, like they did with XP ?

docmattman:

dravor:

So you want MS to work on the things you want, because those are most important to you.  Forget about other requests that are no relevant to you?

That's not what I said.  I said the opinions of the user base (not just me personally), which can be quite easily gathered by reading through the forums here. 

As a software developer myself, if I create a system for only a few users, then when I go to update that system, I won't put what I want in there.  I'll put what those few users want.

You're missing my whole point.  I'm not saying that MS should spend more millions than they actully do to improve MC.  The fact is that they have decided to create Fiji (whatever the cost may be).  Now, since they have decided to put money into the project, just attempt to give the users what they want instead of what MS thinks they want.

It is called customer requirements and by satisfying them is the only measure of product success.

The good companies listen and respond.  The other companies respond when it is too late.

The main problem is that there isn't a viable competitor...yet because where ever there is a demand there is some company trying to tap into that demand to make a profit. 

The problem with M$ is two fold.  First, they have a tremendous amount of cash which makes them slow to anticipate customer needs, who needs the stinky whinny customer anyway?

 

Second, no one in this area is pushing them to be the best that they can be.  Therefore they don’t anticipate but instead react; fighting up hill while trying to buy their way out of the hole that their arrogance dug, reference Google.

 

Now they are at their best when they listen to the customer and anticipate and evolve a product based on the customer’s input, see Xbox 360.  The media center is at a cross roads, which way will M$ go?

ghostlobster:

SirMeili:

Hey Mr Lobster,

Actually, you can run SageTV on a multitude of OSs including OSX and Linux I do believe :) So in other works, you DON'T need to purchase MS software to run it. I'm sure you know this, but I wanted to let people know that :)

Ya know, I honestly completely forgot about that! :)  COOL! 

Although, having struggled through several Linux installations in the past, I think I'll stick with Vista, but you're 100% correct!

Actually, I hear the new install of Ubuntu is really stable and really easy to set up. If it will run on that then setup would actually be quite easy!

Are the screenshots on that blog all photoshoped then ? They look pretty alright. Then again the "source" was a first poster on some forum down under.

dravor:

As for the VMC user base, don't you you think there would be more members on here if it was used more?  What do we have, 100,000 memberS?  By May of this year there were 140 million copies of Vista sold?  You do the math smart guy.

I'm sorry to say this, but most average people I don't thik join communities like this even though they fully enjoy the product. I was visiting TGB for well over 6 months just checking for new plugins before I started to contribute. So, I don't think that you can justly say that the size of TGB membership is necessarily the size of the enthusiust market. It goes the other way, there are some members here who regularly contribute that don't ue MC at all (Mr. Lobster for instance). I think this is a great community, and yes some people "complain" about the feature set cause basically they are hoping MS will move out ahead. Saying they have more revenue to do this then thier competitors, I don't see why this is such an unrealistic expectation.

I'm also really happy that you are 100% happy with VMC. Some of us aren't. MS didn't buy this community so that we could all say how much we love it. They admittedly said one reason were the raw opinionated views they could get from the people here. That tells me not to hold back, and I am guessing others took it that way as well.

I'm also sure if MS released an intermediary update right now that fixed a bunch of problems and charged for it, people would purchase it (perhaps some would complain, but they'd buy it). I'm not asking for a free handout, just a great product which fulfills my needs (and hopefully those of others as well).

I know plenty of people that run vmc but dont visit here.
The membership of TGB does not show the amount of users that run media center.
But on a happy note its good to see the MS have chipped in with that open communication with the users, thier input into this thread has been tremendous.
They wanted to be given a chance to earn trust and what not after buying this site, well step up guys here is a perfect chance for you.
The tail has no idea what the head is doing.

boulder2,

I hope you don't think all of us Americans feel that way about people outside the US. you are right that some Americans tent to be egocentric and its kind of sad. What I would really like to see is the demographics for Vista users. the US has only 300 million or so people, and there are 6 billion in the world. I personally would like to know how much usage of Vista is outside the US compared to that in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if it matched or even exceeded that of use in the US. Just because MS is based in the US, doesn't mean they soley develop for the US.

The tv pack is confirmed

http://support.microsoft.com/default...rss&spid=11734

"Windows Media Center TV Pack was released on July 16, 2008. Not all computers that are shipped by hardware vendors in the retail channel will have Windows Media Center TV Pack. To check whether your computer has the Windows Media Center TV Pack installed, follow these steps:
1. Start Windows Media Center.
2. In the Start window, scroll to Tasks, click Settings, and then click General.
3. Click About Windows Media Center, and then click Software Version.
If the version is 6.1.1000.18273, you are running the Windows Media Center TV Pack.

If the version number is 6.0.6001.18000, you are not running Windows Media Center TV Pack. You are running the version of Windows Media Center that is released in Windows Vista or in Windows Vista SP1."

DeaneG:

Wow, this thread is a complete waste of perfectly good bits.

Yip!  Whilst I agree with a lot of what has been said (the constructive stuff that is), this thread has now degenerated in to playground behaviour with personal insults being hurled from every direction.  Think its time the mods closed this thread now before it goes too far (it might have done already IMO)

Rich

If the comments are out of line then surely have the mods remove those offending posts.
But that is no reason at all to close the thread, i couldnt care less about some of the childish comments of a few, im here wanting news on this tv pack and im sure others are also.
Lets keep the personal stuff out and just focus on the topic at hand.

Now that we have confirmation about the tv pack are any ehome guys going to comment?
Not a good sign when some MS employees dont know whats going on, suppose its hard to include us in the loop when clearly they themselfs aint included.

SirMeili:

boulder2,

I hope you don't think all of us Americans feel that way about people outside the US. you are right that some Americans tent to be egocentric and its kind of sad. What I would really like to see is the demographics for Vista users. the US has only 300 million or so people, and there are 6 billion in the world. I personally would like to know how much usage of Vista is outside the US compared to that in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if it matched or even exceeded that of use in the US. Just because MS is based in the US, doesn't mean they soley develop for the US.

I know this, SirMeili.
It 's just that some people really cause this anti-US feeling abroad (the current president is one of the prime examples of this).
I can also imagine that living in a large country makes it easy to forget about the rest of the world.
The same goes for learning a different language, the more people speak yours, the less you are inclined to learn someone else's of course.
But even if the spread of (legal copies of ) Vista would be very unequal, I still think that does not justify an attitude of "we don't care about you people".
I stick by my point of view : "either you create it and you support it, or you don't".
Now they 're grabbing the money, but when people complain about the slow evolution, they say "we don't care, it 's not our core business".

fuminggorilla8:

If the comments are out of line then surely have the mods remove those offending posts.
But that is no reason at all to close the thread, i couldnt care less about some of the childish comments of a few, im here wanting news on this tv pack and im sure others are also.
Lets keep the personal stuff out and just focus on the topic at hand.

Yeah, good point and I hope so!

Rich

WOW how quickly we turned on each other.... I don't think any of the posts should be removed, nothing that offensive in any of them, and what they do show is simply the level of frustration with MS after the long wait for fiji only to have it (possibly) limited to OEMs.

If true... I can't understand the logic... its not like there is anything that special in the fiji update, in fact it sounds more and more like nothing more than a rollup like we used to get for MCE2005 once or twice a year... and to be honest I would be happy about that, if I thought we would get at least one or two updates per year that slowly added more functionality, then fine. Yeah we know it is a niche product but it is a good product, sure it could be better, but if MS don't want to invest heavily in it then that is up to them and we will either choose to use it or not. The passion that the product seems to bring out in people should tell someone in MS that if you want to take over the world.. ;) and earn revenue then giving people a good entertainment product that you can then leverage to generate additional revenue is the way to go.... ohhh that is an XBox isn't it... ohh hummm well I am off to watch TV on my media center....

If indeed it has been released then the NDAs are over and lets hope that someone from MS can just tell us what the story is.... whether we like it or not.... afterall the door has always been open at the Green Button for MS to post comments, and with the recent investment here it wouldn't be too much to ask for some straight talk...

buellpilot:

WOW how quickly we turned on each other.... I don't think any of the posts should be removed, nothing that offensive in any of them, and what they do show is simply the level of frustration with MS after the long wait for fiji only to have it (possibly) limited to OEMs.

If true... I can't understand the logic... its not like there is anything that special in the fiji update, in fact it sounds more and more like nothing more than a rollup like we used to get for MCE2005 once or twice a year... and to be honest I would be happy about that, if I thought we would get at least one or two updates per year that slowly added more functionality, then fine. Yeah we know it is a niche product but it is a good product, sure it could be better, but if MS don't want to invest heavily in it then that is up to them and we will either choose to use it or not. The passion that the product seems to bring out in people should tell someone in MS that if you want to take over the world.. ;) and earn revenue then giving people a good entertainment product that you can then leverage to generate additional revenue is the way to go.... ohhh that is an XBox isn't it... ohh hummm well I am off to watch TV on my media center....

If indeed it has been released then the NDAs are over and lets hope that someone from MS can just tell us what the story is.... whether we like it or not.... afterall the door has always been open at the Green Button for MS to post comments, and with the recent investment here it wouldn't be too much to ask for some straight talk...

I couldn't agree more!

Great Point!

Wow.  Seriously, wow.

Fiji comes out, and we can't get it unless we buy a new PC with it pre-installed?

I feel sick.