I know this is a Microsoft forum, but I'm going to comit a cardinal sin anyway for the sake of trying to improve MediaCenter.

The product that got this right, and got it right way back in the early 2000's is mythtv.  You have a centrally located server with all of your tuners that can either be with or without a 'front end', and then you have multiple pc's on the other end that act as 'Extenders'.

The equivalent from Microsoft would be WHS with a headless install, and softsled.  Reading up about the subject on mythtv.org you'll find it doesn't take a huge CPU to simply record SD or HD tv.  A simple dual core processor (maybe even an atom dual core) can handle recording 2 HD channels.  The difference in the mythtv universe from Media Center is that the front end is a stand alone application that doesn't require the server to render the UI.  This means your front end systems will be beafier than the MCE extenders.  The 360 would have no problem with this, but the Linksys extenders would simply choak.

This would be the ultimate setup.  Expecially when you consider you have included Media Center on laptops.  While AverMedia has some excelent tuner products for them, who really wants to have to connect a RG6 to something that's sitting on their lap?  Not only that but I worry about USB thumb tuners on portables.  What do you think will fail first?  The rugged RG6 connector, the USB on the tuner, or the usb port on your motherboard in your laptop?

Finally, if Microsoft / Cablelabs are going to continue to require certified systems for the use of cable cards / tru2way why not impose that requirement on WHS boxes?  It's a hell of a lot less expensive for a HP WHS than a Dell XPS 420/430, and the HP WHS uses a lot less power than most of our recycled 'roll your own' WHS boxes.  That and you can hide those external ATI DCT's with your WHS instead of having to look at them constantly.

Microsoft imposes tuner limitations within Media Center in order to differentiate value with respect to Ultimate and Home Premium. A server / WHS with a tuner farm sounds great but it defeats this product placement and Microsoft wont likely have any of it.

Also, OCUR limitations apply and as such only extenders would be usable for premium media.

The main problem is the same problem we have been saddled with all along. The entertainment industry / copyright holders wont allow the streaming of premium media to other PC’s. One day perhaps things will change for Microsoft in much the same way Apple is now able to sell 100% DRM music but for now the shackles are on.

Having said that, perhaps a WHS running a Hauppauge HD PVR and some form of virtual driver not unlike the DVBLink solution could bridge this gap. Also since it is presumably possible to hack Media Center onto Server 2003 one would think it is equally possible for WHS. In many situations it’s the industrious and inventive end-user that leads the way with respect to innovation. Microsoft may not offer us the solutions we want but that doesn’t mean someone can’t force that square peg into that round hole.

I have been doing this for six months with my server running WHS and SageTV for WHS.  I have 2 HD-PVRs, one OTA HD tuner and one analog tuner.  The system is very stable and has never BSODed.  You can't watch TV on this system - for that you need an extender or PC client.  I think that deals with a lot of the instability issues - they are caused by stuff like video (or other) drivers or codecs.  But having a system where all of your clients are hardware extenders and the server has minimal drivers makes life so much easier.

I still have an HTPC running XP MCE but it is almost never used now - it is my backup just in case.

wayner9:

I have been doing this for six months with my server running WHS and SageTV for WHS.  I have 2 HD-PVRs, one OTA HD tuner and one analog tuner.  The system is very stable and has never BSODed.  You can't watch TV on this system - for that you need an extender or PC client.  I think that deals with a lot of the instability issues - they are caused by stuff like video (or other) drivers or codecs.  But having a system where all of your clients are hardware extenders and the server has minimal drivers makes life so much easier.

I still have an HTPC running XP MCE but it is almost never used now - it is my backup just in case.

I think SageTV serves as a great example of how this should be done. They have SageTV integrated into WHS, and their own extenders integrate seemlessly for a whole house solution. You can throw a dvd in the server drive, and play it on any of the extenders. I am not saying that SageTV is perfect, just that it is a blueprint for what MS should be doing to get the consumer the whole house solution.

I personally would like to see all my tuners be IP based like the HDHomeRun.  I think it's great to just keep it out of the PC.

DanITman:

I personally would like to see all my tuners be IP based like the HDHomeRun.  I think it's great to just keep it out of the PC.

Ugh, I don't.  Don't get me wrong, when it was the only solution for ClearQAM, I loved the HDHomeRun, but it's another power supply to connect, plus it needs a cable input for each tuner, and takes up space.  I know it was hidden behind my monitor, so you don't see it, but it definitely contributed to the mess of wiring back there.  I'm so much happier with the internal cards I have now.  (2x Hauppauge 2250.)  Each card has two hybrid tuners for both analog and digital, and you only need one input per card.

dbone1026:

I think SageTV serves as a great example of how this should be done. They have SageTV integrated into WHS, and their own extenders integrate seemlessly for a whole house solution. You can throw a dvd in the server drive, and play it on any of the extenders. I am not saying that SageTV is perfect, just that it is a blueprint for what MS should be doing to get the consumer the whole house solution.

In fairness, Microsoft has to deal much more heavily with the content providers.  SageTV's only compromise (besides the horribly ugly interface, when I last tried it) is that instead of dealing with any content providers, you just get no content.  (CableCards are an example of what I mean.)

jhoff81:

dbone1026:

I think SageTV serves as a great example of how this should be done. They have SageTV integrated into WHS, and their own extenders integrate seemlessly for a whole house solution. You can throw a dvd in the server drive, and play it on any of the extenders. I am not saying that SageTV is perfect, just that it is a blueprint for what MS should be doing to get the consumer the whole house solution.

In fairness, Microsoft has to deal much more heavily with the content providers.  SageTV's only compromise (besides the horribly ugly interface, when I last tried it) is that instead of dealing with any content providers, you just get no content.  (CableCards are an example of what I mean.)

I am not talking about content per se. I am talking more about how SageTV is able to integrate with WHS and use their extenders to feed off of this. I can start watching a show on one extender and pick up where I left off on another, etc... I don't need to leave some PC on just to get the "extender" benefit like you do with MCE. Like I said, I don't think SageTV is perfect, I am not a big fan of the UI which I find every other Media Center Software out there beats, and on my HTPCs I use VMC and not SageTV. I much prefer VMC over SageTV any day of the week, I just think SageTV got it right with getting us closer to a whole house solution.

I am really annoyed by this whole situation. fundamentally, my issue is Microsoft's stance that they aren't a hardware company. Really? 360, zune, keyboards, mice. Given the Market is so small, why go the whole partner route? The extender concept works. A centralized Media center, and extenders through out the house. MS could easily contract with an OEM in taiwan to develop a nice MS branded extender. MS would provide the firmware updates, drivers etc. extender built into 360, zune dock, or standalone extender. Unify XB Live, Zune Store, etc. Jesus, this isn't rocket science. But no, MS goes the WinMO route. the parallels between winMO and the extenders are amazing. 1. Both Products sucked in the first iteration. 2. Both products utilized severely under-speced hardware. 3. Both Products are getting killed by the competition. 4. Both products use OEM's for hardware. "We are not a hardware company" Yes you are! have you learned nothing from the iPhone.

I don't have a WHS because I use my MCE as a server (since it needs to be running all the time to record shows). Once I got it stable I don't tweak it anymore. All my movies and music are stored, organized, and shared from it. I have a share on it where I can manually back up my files and share them to other users/computers on the network. I can browse to the MCE from any room in the house using a xbox running xbmc, a xbox360, or individual laptops to watch movies or play music.

I believe all I am missing from WHS is automated backups and storage pooling? However if they offered a WHS+MCE and it was super stable and simple I'd use that.

 

 

 

jgs9455:

I don't have a WHS because I use my MCE as a server (since it needs to be running all the time to record shows). Once I got it stable I don't tweak it anymore. All my movies and music are stored, organized, and shared from it. I have a share on it where I can manually back up my files and share them to other users/computers on the network. I can browse to the MCE from any room in the house using a xbox running xbmc, a xbox360, or individual laptops to watch movies or play music.

I believe all I am missing from WHS is automated backups and storage pooling? However if they offered a WHS+MCE and it was super stable and simple I'd use that.

 

 

 

Who knows what they have planned for the future?

I found this interesting though:

http://www.andrewgrant.org/2008/12/17/virtualizing-media-center-on-windows-home-server.html

Man, reading threads like this reassures my move over to SageTV! A LOT of folks over there use the WHS addin as their tuner farm. If you have an HP WHS, you'll have to use the HDHomerun or a USB tuner. No big deal. It uses minimal CPU/resources when streaming/recording, etc... It's not recommended you use the WHS box to do the actual watching, though.

I hope you guys get this feature in a few years ;).