Yes, it is possible altough I virtualized the HomeServer since it is less CPU intensive and the disks were dedicated. But in this scenario one or the other will suck and a lot of resources (CPU cycles and memory) are wasted. Thanks for the tip tough.

If the scenario exist so users have the need to virualize (since XP as you mentioned), MS should have addressed this already. It only proves as need not addressed by them.

joboehl

My reply was more in response to all post that say that HomeServer is for backup and sharing and nothing else. I guess thats wrong. HomeServer should be for wathever you want it to be and not be limited by artificial software restrictions or lack of vision from the supplier.

 

It sounds like you're referring to the comment I had made a few posts above.  I was trying to convey that those were the main selling points that seperate from other options, after all who would by a WHS if they weren't going to use these features?  Anybody who does the slightest amount of research will realize there are many great things you can do with it, but I certainly wouldn't use it for a standard desktop machine as somebody here was hoping to do.  I love what mine does for me without "using" it and the value in the small list of tasks that I employ it to do has exceed the money I have invested into it.

joboehl

Well, I dont see any business tasks in there (I might have missed from a previous post).

justinm001

Through school i have access to all versions of the software.  I have a pair of 2008R2 ent servers that I keep at my fathers house for my website, domain, exchange, sharepoint, and whatever else I'll need.  I was starting a corporation but everythings currently on hold as I have an opportunity for free college. I'm planning on using the Direct Access features available in the enterprise versions so I can enable some type of Branch Cache setting to backup this server to the business ones and backup the business servers to my home server for sort of a disaster plan.  I also have about 1.5tb storage area network built out of 73.4gb 15krpm fibrechannel drives all ran off a DS4400 which isn't really being used.  At my home i have i have around 6tb of SATA drives that I use for movies, music, pictures, and documents.  I haven't researched much into being able to use tuners, or transcoding movies to a 360 with a 2008 R2 but these features don't work in the current WHS.

@joboehl-hope that straightens things out for you. I think the problem you are having is that you are arguing for tighter Media Center integration for WHS on a MCE enthusiast site. I think you will find yourself hard pressed getting someone here who disagrees with this. The best you are really going to get is Chris who is really only trying to ground expectations with the reality of what MS will most likely deliver (or lack thereof in this particular case).

 I have read most of this thread and think that you have all missed the biggest news to come out of this.

 There will be an "app store" for WHS. Microsoft is following crApples lead on the fact that you don't need to pay employees to make the apps that users want. Make a solid platform that allows for a governed channel to applications that will make it better and let the devs do the work and support. They know that there are very motivated devs in this niche we live in. Look around, FireSTB, DVRMSToolbox,YAMM, and vmcNetFlix. These devs put blood, sweat and tears into apps that they don't even get any money for...

 Just my 2 cents =:-'>

ganjagadget

 I have read most of this thread and think that you have all missed the biggest news to come out of this.

 There will be an "app store" for WHS. Microsoft is following crApples lead on the fact that you don't need to pay employees to make the apps that users want. Make a solid platform that allows for a governed channel to applications that will make it better and let the devs do the work and support. They know that there are very motivated devs in this niche we live in. Look around, FireSTB, DVRMSToolbox,YAMM, and vmcNetFlix. These devs put blood, sweat and tears into apps that they don't even get any money for...

 Just my 2 cents =:-'>

Do you "really" think free and open source projects would end up in the app store?

I never said free. And I never said that those community apps would go on the app store. I am just saying that Microsoft doesn't want to develop for a niche market. It knows the money is in mediaroom. Hence the post about the mce team shake up

mcewinter

It sounds like you're referring to the comment I had made a few posts above.  I was trying to convey that those were the main selling points that seperate from other options, after all who would by a WHS if they weren't going to use these features?

I agree, but that is the problem I´am refering to. It seems the selling points for WHS v2 will be the same. Thats too risky. Its just Apple release an update for the TimeCapsule for it to backup WindowsPC and HomeServer have a major competitor. Also, a lot of people will say that a simple NAS can do this (expecially the ones that never used the backup on WHS).

Thats why I´am saying MS should look at WHS as more than backup and file sharing. Adding it as a more crucial part of the home and not limiting it. Its great as it is, but they need to keep pushing the envelope 

  Anybody who does the slightest amount of research will realize there are many great things you can do with it, but I certainly wouldn't use it for a standard desktop machine as somebody here was hoping to do.  I love what mine does for me without "using" it and the value in the small list of tasks that I employ it to do has exceed the money I have invested into it.

Sorry if I gave the impression of using it as a desktop OS. It is not and should not be used as such. The examples I gave were in using it always as a server.

Ok, so I missed from a previous post.

I replied purelly on the quotes from the original post.

MSBob

@joboehl-hope that straightens things out for you. I think the problem you are having is that you are arguing for tighter Media Center integration for WHS on a MCE enthusiast site. I think you will find yourself hard pressed getting someone here who disagrees with this. The best you are really going to get is Chris who is really only trying to ground expectations with the reality of what MS will most likely deliver (or lack thereof in this particular case).

 Well, more than once we can see people arguing, including in this thread, for the lack of value for this kind of integration. I dont think it will happen. If customer input delivered product functionality, Softsled would had be release in Vista already. I just say that there is a value.

Dont get me wrong, I´am not trying to convince anybody about this. I just said anyone has a different need and WHS should not limit the usage scenarios. As for WMC, after years using and investing, I really thing the platform is dying and I really doubt it will be included in Windows 8 or whatever. Maybe it follow other products like Windows Movie Maker and Widnows Mail to the Windows Live Apps grave.

joboehl

Thats why I´am saying MS should look at WHS as more than backup and file sharing. Adding it as a more crucial part of the home and not limiting it. Its great as it is, but they need to keep pushing the envelope 

 

I'm sorry you find WHS limiting, it didn't sound like it offered much to me either until I tried it.  MS made a true set it and forget it system of WHS and adding MC would destroy that.  Look at all the threads with stuttering issues for just one example.  To trouble shoot those issues you would have to knock down your WHS as well, the very machine that comes in handy for troubleshooting.  For me that would kill the WAF as my wife has a lot of files for work stored there that she needs to access regularly which outwheighs the importance of TV.

How do you restore your MC machine if it's on the system that does the restoring?

With Apples success of their app store, it kinda makes sense that WHS and well everything else should go this route, it's obviously what the people want.

mcewinter

I'm sorry you find WHS limiting, it didn't sound like it offered much to me either until I tried it.  MS made a true set it and forget it system of WHS and adding MC would destroy that. 

I understand that point, and anyone use it like they want to. If you want a rock solid, dont touch it machine, you can have it. Other people will want to have lots of Addins installed. Thats like phone, some people would just want a rock solid phone to make a call, others will install tons of stuff even if that makes it a little more unstable. The platform should allow that, like it does today.

I also think all that remote access features are useless. My concern is to reduce the surface area for attacks. But that doesnt mean it should be removed from the product. I have the option to disable or enable it. Since Microsoft demostrated that MediaCenter users are a scenario with value to HomeServer (see PP3), they should go to the same route.

 

 Look at all the threads with stuttering issues for just one example.  To trouble shoot those issues you would have to knock down your WHS as well, the very machine that comes in handy for troubleshooting.  For me that would kill the WAF as my wife has a lot of files for work stored there that she needs to access regularly which outwheighs the importance of TV.

Well, my HomeServer never helped me troubleshooting MCE, but thats a different story. I also had my share of problems with speed with access stored on the MCE due to the latency involved in acessing remote files on the server. So everything has its pros and cons. And like I said before, you are not forced to use it. But Microsoft not including the software forbiding some scenarios.

And if you look around, you will see that other companies are already allowing this very same scenarios with competing problems. So Microsoft own platform is loosing on its own ground for those other products. Problem is that MCE, only Microsoft can provide the solution, since is its own product.

 

How do you restore your MC machine if it's on the system that does the restoring?

With Apples success of their app store, it kinda makes sense that WHS and well everything else should go this route, it's obviously what the people want.

Thats a WHS problem. If you install a AddInd and that breaks your HomeServer, how do you restore that? Thats an overall limitation of HomeServer and should be fixed independent of the MediaCenter part.

Also, MCE is just part of the issue. What I started saying is that Microsoft has a trend of inovating in one area and then stop. HomeServer was a major inovation comparing to what there was available in the market, like WMC once was. Now, in the second version they just do more of the same. Thats my complaint. It is following the same route that took WMC nowhere. Every 2 or 3 years a new release would come out missing what users requested the most and failed to create a place for itself in the market. After 3 versions and 6 years of missing costumer expectations (or switching from one focusgroup to another), it might end up being as irrelevent to the market as WMC is today. And that did not happen only with MCE, it happened with Zune, Windows Mobile and Vista to name a few. I tought tide was turning based on Windows 7, but the disappointments with CEDIA, CES and this first drop of Vail sadly point to another direction.

 

joboehl

Well, my HomeServer never helped me troubleshooting MCE

 

I keep drivers, plugins, misc. software on my WHS and I've used it to restore my machine after botching things up, I find it useful that way.  I may have even been watching a movie or listening to music stored on the WHS during the troubleshooting/restoring process.

Bells and whistles eventually become just that if you can't make use of it's true purpose.

joboehl

What I started saying is that Microsoft has a trend of inovating in one area and then stop.

 

Amen, but what feature would sell WHS to everybody that it doesn't already have.  Even with MC integration I don't see my Dad, my Aunt, or my cousin saying "I have to have that".  The average Joe probably doesn't want to pay $500ish for another thing that they're going to have learn how to use.  I understand how easy it is to use but Joe doesn't.

Microsoft just has crappy marketing so products tend to suffocate right from launch which tends to make it hard for them to invest in adding more features.  Apple should get an award for brainwashing their customers, they add features just as slowly but with much better timing and logic.  They offer a tight ecosystem without even selling the ecosystem as a feature, it's almost transparent.  Microsoft just has a 'build it and they will come' mentality and leave us to fend for ourselves on forums like this.

Added: As for the Zune, building a product almost as good as the competition doesn't cut it, adding more features than the competition would have been a good idea.  Giving it extender capablities (by taking advantage of HomeGroup) would have seperated it from the competition in a fierce way rather than trying to mimic it, HD radio was an impotent attemp.

 I think it's fair to ask people to clarify what kind of WMC integration they want. I don't want to watch MC on my WHS, but I would like it to improve my whole house MC experience.

 

 So I would guess I'm pretty basic in what I would like to see:

tuner support, at least for remote playback (not necessarily local, and including my HDHR/I guess this means softsled);

extender support (this might mean a WHS specific version of 7MC to play on extenders);

make it a default place to do the encoding etc of shows (including the ever so difficult ac-3);

 

Other specific tweaks and improvements:

easy to backup the PC backups, as well the WHS itself;

in place upgrade option from v1 (quite honestly, this shouldn't be that hard even with a single hard drive system, even with the x64 requirement)

mac & linux backup abilities (yes, I realize they think it will help sell other Windows installs if they don't allow it...that's the problem with letting marketing and accounting types be involved. More likely it will make people with *mostly* Windows environments not bother buying it since it won't fill all their needs)

make a version of MSE for it

 

Some non-WHS specific tweaks, that it could help support if they ever got around to it:

one guide to rule them all

remote webguide plus mobile version of same

 

I hope this does have a native MCE solution...if not...then I'll just give it a miss. Hopefully the beta will have MCE built-in.

It sounds like you can use the Ceton card in WHS and share it across the network.

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/p/78488/427599.aspx#427599

By this method it appears there is no reason why you can't put two Ceton cards in your WHS and allot the tuners accordingly to each PC, but no more than four per PC of course.

This solution won't be viable for the extender freaks, but still pretty cool.

mcewinter

Amen, but what feature would sell WHS to everybody that it doesn't already have.  Even with MC integration I don't see my Dad, my Aunt, or my cousin saying "I have to have that".  The average Joe probably doesn't want to pay $500ish for another thing that they're going to have learn how to use.  I understand how easy it is to use but Joe doesn't.

Thats a very good question.  You know, I think MC integration would make a strong point on how getting into MS ecosystem is better than using different products. If we take away TV support from MC (were most problems are), you still have a MUCH better experience for Music-Videos-Photos on the XBOX than you would have with the dashboard acessing any other kind of external storage. So for the entire XBOX crowd, WHS by itself would improve the overall experience. If you compare the music player on the dashboard vs the music player on the MC, is close to I have to have that for the XBOX users. Of course, MS would need to market that, what is a BIG problem like you said.

 Microsoft just has a 'build it and they will come' mentality and leave us to fend for ourselves on forums like this.

Witch is clearly not working for some products

 

Added: As for the Zune, building a product almost as good as the competition doesn't cut it, adding more features than the competition would have been a good idea.  Giving it extender capablities (by taking advantage of HomeGroup) would have seperated it from the competition in a fierce way rather than trying to mimic it, HD radio was an impotent attemp.

Agree. HomeServer could also help a bit here, making the ecosystem easier to use. Like having a feature to auto-convert every video file and leave it ready for Zune playback, so you dont have to wait a few hours for it to convert when you want to take it to a trip. Since the machine is always on, you dont even to know when its taking place. But Zune cant do just what the other do, it needed to be different. And its not different enough right now.